Pondering Decision where to Donate Collection

[exoticimports]

Probably about five years from now we'll be moving, and I have no intention of taking nor continuing to curate a specimen collection.

Already, I've donated thousands of specimens, with repositories including Smithsonian, AMNH, BMNH, Carnegie, and others. But thousands remain, and will need a good home.


My considerations are:

1. Ease of disposal

2. Reward for support

3. Best allocation

4. Longevity of collection



EASE OF DISPOSAL

Already, Smithsonian's answer was effectively "We'd love it! We'll come get it!" I like that answer. However, some of the other factors (below) would require far more complicated and expensive dispersion.



REWARD FOR SUPPORT

I am inclined to give preferential treatment to those who've supported me, directly or indirectly. Specifically, those who participate here. By contrast, I fulfilled a request for a very rare specimen to a researcher at AMNH, and never got even a thank you. And Bishop (where a good argument can be made much of it belongs) can kiss my back end.



BEST ALLOCATION

Chris inadvertently made a good point recently: certain organizations have specific focus. Is the collection best broken up, and portions sent to focus groups? With a known beetle fanatic at Carnegie, perhaps they should "go to a good home." But see "Ease of Disposal."



LONGEVITY

I'm not a fan of donating to small museums or universities. I'm about to start restoration of a second small (14,000 specimen) collection at a university. They don't have the staff, money, or generally the interest to curate a collection the way it should be done.


During the Olympics in Berlin in 1936 nobody thought the city would soon be in ashes. Ditto Sarajevo in 1992. The larger the city, the more likely a major conflict will result in total destruction.

Now, for the first time in USA, we have violent destruction of facilities in urban areas. Paris has come to USA. While currently the focus is on government and law enforcement, it's not a far stretch nor distance to the museums (now often viewed as racists, etc.) And on that topic, museums are purging collections of various focus to satisfy social dementia and fit a narrative.

To ensure survivability of a collection (or anything else) typically the best approach is distribution- spread it around, something will survive. In that case, the best approach may be to distribute to PRIVATE entomologists rather than urban facilities. But again, see "Ease of Disposal."




So all that said, your views and opinions are highly welcomed.

Thanks,

Chuck

[wollastoni]

Good topic !
What means "Paris has come to USA" ?

It all depends of the content of your collection.

Personnally I would :
- give the paratypes, types to a Museum, a serious one like BMNH or MNHM (I can't judge the US ones as I don't know them well)
- sell the top rarities online to get a bit of cash.
- then I would sell the whole collection to a big butterfly dealer or in an auction (we have many in France).
Doing so, my collection will end in the hands of private collectors like me. I am sure they will better take care of my specimens than any Museums.

And if I really don't need money, I would give it to a younger entomologist as passionated as me. One who is about 35/50 yo and is passionated enough to take good care of it.

[58chevy]

The McGuire Center in Florida would be a very good option for your lepidoptera specimens. I don't know whether they keep beetles or other orders.

[exoticimports]

Yes I forgot to include McGuire. They have been very supportive, and have many of my specimens. Simply forgot to cite them on my list.

[kevinkk]

Nov 6, 2020 7:07:38 GMT -8 wollastoni said:

Good topic !
What means "Paris has come to USA" ?

I think that could be an allude to the unrest here. Personally, at the risk of commenting on something I wanted banned before it was-
The USA has come to roost. I think with some exceptions, Americans are pretty comfortable and I don't see an immediate threat to
natural history institutions.
Good luck with your decisions, I like the idea of donating to a younger individual, and the possibility of some sales.
When I was starting out, someone donated their homemade cases to me after a newspaper article about my hobby,
I was appreciative, although the cases weren't exactly pest proof. Still, a nice gesture.

[wollastoni]

Yes let's avoid political or geopolitical discussions to not spoil that interesting thread indeed.

[hewi]

I can only agree with Wollastoni.
If money is short, I will sell the whole collection (with many rarities) or put it up for auction.
In the other case the collection will be given away to a younger collector.

[exoticimports]

Let's assume money is not short. I don't want that to influence perspectives.

[wollastoni]

Is your collection generalist of very specialized on few genera/families ?

[exoticimports]

Nov 6, 2020 9:41:40 GMT -8 wollastoni said:

Is your collection generalist of very specialized on few genera/families ?

Of course, the situation of each entomologist and collection will differ, but I'd rather keep the discussion generic so that it is applicable to as many people as possible.

But to answer the question, since I presume mine shares similarities with others, mine consists of:

1. Local specimens of all orders

2. Resulting specimens from regional studies in South Pacific, South America, etc.

3. Commercial specimens (some of which are now worth money) remaining from my youth

4. Educational displays- life cycles, big and showy exotics, etc. These I may retain longer to continue educating school groups, etc.

[leptraps]

When my life comes to an end, my collection in it's entirety, specimens, Drawers, Temporary Storage Boxes, Cabinets, Library, and collection files, will go to the McGuire Center for Lepidoptera and Biodiversity.

I want my life long work to used to advance our knowledge of the Lepidoptera of North America.

[yorky]

I look at this a little differently because of personal experience of museums in the UK. Firstly there is a tremendous amount of snobbery involved with staff and "experts " who are usually condescending and rude. There is also a sense of entitlement that pervades. I have never experienced any sort of gratitude or humility with any of them.I worked hard for the money to buy my rarities and many hours and miles to obtain my self caught material so in short I find them quite undeserving. I will sell what I can and donate some of my small local collection to a local museum who seem to be more appreciative of my efforts.

[trehopr1]

Exoticimports, you have remarked in the past many experiences in the South Pacific; some or perhaps much of it work. One would think you would have quite the birdwing collection yet I think you only showed us one case of victoria's (once).

Do you have an ornithoptera collection of substance or have you for some reason given much of it away as donations or perhaps sold some of it?

Man, running across all that good stuff over those years in New Guinea and the Solomons etc you surely must have come across some really cool stuff.

Just idle curiosity...

[nomihoudai]

If money is not an issue, every collection can quickly be split up into different focus group (either by location, or by family/genus). These can then be passed on to specialists or museums that focus on that group (as long as these people are still around). Peculiar stuff should go to one of the big museums. The larger the collection the better.

I sold off my collection in 2 large lots. The first one went to a local museum and the price was fair. The second lot with the specialist's items didn't fetch anything near to what I had hoped to get.

For now, I do not intend to keep a collection again and I also don't miss it at all. I move frequently. Maybe I'll start a new one when I am 50 and bored, settled down, owning a house. But I doubt that this will happen,... I mean the getting bored part

[bandrow]

Hi Exoticimports,

Well, I would certainly be interested in having the opportunity to discuss the disposition of your collection when the time comes, and see if the Carnegie would be a good fit. I could put you into contact with Dr. Ainsley Seago - our new Head Curator - she's a dynamo and a breath of fresh air for the program.

I can't say we would meet all your conditions, but 'ease of disposal' is no issue - we've driven to Vermont, Texas, D.C., New Mexico, etc., to pick up collections.

I think the historic legacy of study of the Lepidoptera at the Carnegie, and its continued activity in that realm, provides good argument for workers to be comfortable in continuing to donate their collections to the museum. Additionally, the current administration is increasingly 'pro-collections' and we are seeing an increased buy-in from the board to support the existing collections as well as acquiring new materials.

As far as whether the collection would be a good 'fit' at the Carnegie - your materials from the South Pacific would likely fill in gaps for areas presently poorly represented. We have tremendous coverage from South America, the Caribbean, Africa, Taiwan and North America, but we are relatively depauperate in the South Asian, Indonesian, Papuan and South Pacific faunas. This holds true across most taxa, although some beetle groups have better representation from more parts of the globe.

As for 'reward for support' - does driving you back to your hotel after you learned that taxis don't work in Pittsburgh count? And I hope you've forgotten your frustrating experience that Saturday, as I sure was irritated by the lack of focus of your host while you were there. Things have changed!

Keep us in mind as the time gets closer... and feel free to ask about anything you need to know to help guide your decision...

Cheers!
Bandrow

[kevinkk]

My collecting efforts, entomology, books, old toys, comics, all for my enjoyment,
it's all I can expect.
Every time I've sold something off,it never fetches the price I'd have liked or expected,
exceptions happen, but aren't the norm,being appreciated is what's important, by anyone.
Giving something to someone who appreciates it isn't always selfless, I give to the toy
drive each year, it gives me satisfaction to spread around what good fortune I have.
I don't expect my heirs to feel the same way about my stuff as I do, it's just not
possible, I've thought about the end, and selling things off before it's too late has occurred
to me, perhaps later.
Having a collection of a lifetime go to waste isn't something any of us want to think about, being
in charge of your own "liquidation" might be a good idea. The one surety, is the unexpected, which we
can expect to occur.

[jshuey]

First and foremost, I'd ask myself the question - "Why did I create this insect collection?" Then I would look for a home that furthers that goal or desire. Certainly your criteria listed play into that decision. But it sounds like you want he collection to play some role beyond your ownership (at least based on you "best allocation" discussion). I would find the place (or places) that best advance your interests and that meet your other criteria.

I can tell you my personal and simple solution when I thought about this. I want my collection's strengths (Neotropical Hesperiidae, Belize and Central America butterflies) to find a secure home where it will advance a robust research tradition. I want my material to help fill gaps in an otherwise amazing collection with similar strengths. At a place that has the resources to maintain both their collection and to support Lepidoptera research into the future.

There are several institutions that meet my criteria, and at least four have been mentioned here - the Carnegie, American, Smithsonian and McGuire. I made my simple choice based on the way my collection fits into the existing holdings a the Smithsonian (amazingly strong holdings of neotropical butterflies in general, but the best collections in the world for Panama (the Gordon Collection) and Costa Rica (Janzen reared material), plus the super strength of the hesperiid collection that Janzen has developed though his rearing as well. And thanks to their field station in Panama plus the close association with all the USDA taxonomists that work out of the collection, I know they will always have several lepidopterists on staff. Long-term friendships with John Burns and Bob Robbins seal the deal.

But the bottom line is that the collection would have advanced my personal goals at the Carnegie or American as well - and the choice between these and the Smithsonian was a hard decision. It really came down to my personal admiration of John Burns' legacy.

john

[bandrow]

Jshuey - your comments about personal connections is a good point and is often the "clincher". Some of the best influxes of Cerambycidae into the Carnegie have come from personal friends of mine wanting to 'down-size' their surplus holdings, and me being able to facilitate that for them.

As far as promoting further research, we were on the verge of hiring a second Collection Manager with a focus on Lepidoptera when the pandemic hit. Plans are on hold for now, but the intention is to reopen the search when the situation makes it possible. With the addition of Dr. Seago as Head Curator, things are really looking positive for our future, in all sorts of ways.

Cheers!
Bandrow

[exoticimports]

Thanks everyone for the insights thus far. Bandrow, I got your "hint"!

As Jshuey said, my intent is for my donated collection to be of value to future research; preferably to optimize that value.

How does one determine "best place" based on (1) going to an organization that focuses on that genre/ potential lesser value due to duplication of existing assets and (2) filling holes- going to an organization that could use genre that are newish to them ? For example, BMNH has duplicates of virtually every Pacific specimen I have (some because they took them from me.)

For example of genre to consider: neotropical heterocera. Or, "stuff from New York"?

Or am I thinking too much into this?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Cornell (thoughts?) though frankly I'm less than impressed with the university as a whole.

Chuck

[sphinx14]

It is probably selfish and forward to offer but I would be happy to give the collection a home. I am 29 (today) and have cared for and maintained my own collection since I was 10.

I have a home large enough to house any size collection, a wife and a newborn son, so moving is not something that will be happening. I'm in Michigan by the way.

As far as furthering research, I'm not involved in much in the way of research anymore. I did some work in Tapachula, Mexico in college but not much since. I have used my own collection for education purposes in schools and camps many times and plan to do the same for my son.

Probably not what you are looking for based on your desires but I figured I would throw my hat in the ring.

I hope you find what you are looking for and wish you the best in this decision!

Zak.

P.S. I have an old account here but can't for the life of me remember the username.

[exoticimports]

Part of my consideration for disposition of my lifelong efforts (and expenses!) is ease of access for researchers. That would limit it to facilities-based organizations and/or top-tier private collections with a history of being available for research.

[exoticimports]

Yorky said in another thread (and copied here): In my experience its not just lack of resources and staff that's the problem with smaller museums, it's a lack of desire. I think the idea of collecting specimens is beyond most young curators and the ones that I have met seem apathetic. Of course they have no idea that what is in front of them took years of sacrifice and patience to acquire and is the result of a lifetimes dedication.



That, of course, is a consideration. Smaller organizations often don't have the interest level. The Uni I'm working with now has bird fanatics, fish fanatics, and of course Herp fanatics, but nobody really loves arthropods. Meaning, nobody invests the time to maintain an insect collection.

Risky is the organization with one or two entomologists. If one leaves, then what? If that one person who leaves is THE one, then there's nobody. And these days, it's common that key staff aren't replaced.

Chuck

[Adam Cotton]

That is the situation with some major museums too now. The museum in Copenhagen has had no Lepidopterist since Ole Karsholt retired a few years ago, and they have holdings of many important type specimens.

Adam.

[wollastoni]

Nov 13, 2020 0:42:44 GMT -8 Adam Cotton said:

That is the situation with some major museums too now. The museum in Copenhagen has had no Lepidopterist since Ole Karsholt retired a few years ago, and they have holdings of many important type specimens.

Adam.

What a shame for Denmark... they could hire someone...

[colin12303]

Nov 7, 2020 7:09:09 GMT -8 bandrow said:

Jshuey - your comments about personal connections is a good point and is often the "clincher". Some of the best influxes of Cerambycidae into the Carnegie have come from personal friends of mine wanting to 'down-size' their surplus holdings, and me being able to facilitate that for them.

As far as promoting further research, we were on the verge of hiring a second Collection Manager with a focus on Lepidoptera when the pandemic hit. Plans are on hold for now, but the intention is to reopen the search when the situation makes it possible. With the addition of Dr. Seago as Head Curator, things are really looking positive for our future, in all sorts of ways.

Cheers!
Bandrow

Bob
I have sent you several emails and pm you on insect net
I keep asking for a address to send the beetles i collected for you this year.
If you no longer want them you only have to say.
Colin