Do Museums Support Collection of Insect Specimens?

[exoticimports]

The topic came up in another thread, and I found it to be a profound question deserving of discussion and discovery.

The original, which I've edited for brevity and to avoid immediate focus on one element of the discussion, is as follows:

Oct 20, 2020 9:21:51 GMT -8 nomihoudai said:

museums can be generalized and <snip> they are in favor of creating laws and policy <snip> I am also sure that many of them promote scientific education and that they do not oppose the collection of voucher specimen when needed.

I hope that I did not change the point by snipping out some of the quote, but you can find the original and read it if you like.


The top-level question is: Do Museums support the collection of insect specimens by citizen scientists?


Please do be polite. I expect arguments, hopefully everyone can read with an open mind and respond with emotional intelligence.

I'll leave it to the floor.


Chuck

[eurytides]

I do not have an “official” answer. However, plenty of people in my neck of the woods, some of whom work at the Royal Ontario Museum, know that I collect specimens and have never said anything. I believe as long as you are doing it responsibly and following guidelines/laws, museums don’t view the activity as negative.

[Chris Grinter]

As a professional entomologist - absolutely. I'd be surprised if any don't! I think one of the only ways to learn entomology is by starting a collection, and I regularly encourage iNaturalist users to collect insects (when legal) for vouchering and proper ID. As an aside - iNat is part of my institution.

[Chris Grinter]

Oct 20, 2020 18:34:44 GMT -8 eurytides said:

I do not have an “official” answer. However, plenty of people in my neck of the woods, some of whom work at the Royal Ontario Museum, know that I collect specimens and have never said anything. I believe as long as you are doing it responsibly and following guidelines/laws, museums don’t view the activity as negative.

Agreed on the ethics of collecting. Not all collecting should be supported, but ethical collecting is a foundation of many of biological sciences.

[exoticimports]

"Museums" of course is painting with a broad brush. There are ranges of museums, not only in USA but globally.

And there is the Museum as an entity, as a board of directors, as a president/ manager, and employees. That alone will run the spectrum from haters of collectors to those who collect themselves.

Clearly, some museums are proponents of citizen scientists, such as LA Museum with its Bug Fair. And of course our friends in FL.

On the other hand, perhaps they/ some don't support collecting as much as they could/ should. For example, going back almost 20 years ago I approached several museums- to which I'd donated hundreds of specimens worth thousands of dollars- for a formal affiliation to expedite permits and import; lots of waffling; none came.

I wonder if insect collections will go the way of other collections- egyptology and Native American, for example. Will insect displays be removed? Specimens returned or buried?

When we talk ethics, well ethics change. Virtually nobody would support my going out and collecting Cardinals (bird).

And while LepSoc is not a museum, and the word "ethics" does not appear, their statement reads: "Collectors should comply with local, state or provincial, federal or national, and international laws and regulations that govern collecting and possession, commerce and exchange, import and export, and protection of species. Collections should comply with additional local, state or provincial, federal or national, and international laws and regulations governing live material."

Though probably written to satisfy antis, lay people and lawyers, this statement is unethical. Brazil and India, for example, ban collecting for one simple reason- to keep snooping environmentalists, including entomologists, from observing ecological destruction and making noise (as had been done.) As scientists is it not unethical to comply, to NOT watch and not report what's going on?

iNat and ButterfliesandMoths.org of course are invaluable, and clear indicators of institutions' involvement with ecology. And as we've seen lately BMNH isn't afraid to post images of specimens. But then again BMNH has been over-reacting to PC pressure and critically significant collections are "under review" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8702867/Natural-History-museum-review-Charles-Darwin-exhibitions-HMS-Beagle-colonialist.html

I suppose I'm thinking to far into this. The trend in reduction of citizen scientist studies and collecting continues, and only so much can be blamed on governments or group think.

Chuck

[wollastoni]

I discussed several times with Jacques Pierre, entomology boss of the Paris MNHM.

Everytime he welcomed me to have a look at the collections.

And he told me several times that we are now lacking insect collectors even for France. He told me it would help understand how our butterfly populations have evolved with urbanization and habitat destructions in France.
Thus even a collection of common French butterflies is very important to scientists : if collected scientifically with locality and biotope data.

[nomihoudai]

The museums in Germany I worked with provided amateurs with:

- collecting permits.
- material to collect.
- a youth group to educate and train high school kids about insect collecting.

From the US I would claim that providing a tax benefit for donating collection material is an indirect way in which museums foster the collection of specimen.

[kevinkk]

The first real insect collection I saw was at our public library when I was much younger, 2 cases of insects collected
across the country by an individual, gave me an idea of what they're supposed to look like.

Ethics- an imperative in life to begin with. Just tossing my thought out here, but when I see dozens, hundreds and thousands of the
the same insect being offered by an individual who is probably not farming Chrysina, or Ornithoptera, etc. and calling them "rare",
in my opinion, that's unethical, maybe it's legal, but that's a different issue.

[jshuey]

Some of the things I read above are borderline at best. First, at least in the US, Museum staff are rarely at the forefront of policy avocation. There may be one or two individuals who push policy, and who happen to also work at a museum (Alan Rabinowitz comes to mind). But on the local basis I can’t think of a single case where I’ve been involved with something, and a taxonomist shows up to talk to an elected official. Now museums may try and influence public opinion, in the name of “an informed public shapes policy” agenda but that’s the back door to policy and is more generational than immediate.

Since the 1980’s, I've played around with natural history "museums" of all makes and models, and I've never sensed an "anti-collector" vibe anywhere. To put that in context, I'm in the Midwest so most of my contact has ranged from the major league (Field and Carnegie) to the minors - Cincinnati, Cleveland and Indiana State Museum - to the university end as well (MSU, tOSU, Purdue, ect). None of these would turn down a solid natural history collection as long as it fit into their perceived mission. For example - Indiana University would love your personal herbarium specimens, but probably would say no to an insect collection. But they would point you towards Purdue – which has an entomology department. Likewise, the smaller market city based natural history collections may or may not want a bunch of big pretty insects from other countries. They, just like you and I, have to live within their budgets. Accepting a donation for safe keeping is a serious commitment of scarce resources into the long-term future. Why would they want something that ends up distracting them away from their strengths and costs them money to maintain? It would be stupid of them to do that – right?

Conversely, within their perceived areas of strength, all the institutions I mention are pretty aggressive about specimen acquisition. And if you can help them within their focus area - I bet that they will help you as much as they can. If you offered to help the Cleveland MNH sample matids in Cuba, I bet they would figure out how to help you with that. And that’s the key to getting what you want – ask yourself if you are advancing something that they care about. If the answer is yes, then they will almost certainly help you. If no, then you are asking them to invest their precious time into your personal hobby (not gonna happen). Hell, I got a permit to collect insects in Brazil a few years back. As it says above, these are impossible to get – but I simply went in with an offer of experience that their grad students wouldn’t otherwise get. And we (me and the students) spent 7 weeks working the Atlantic rainforest on an ecological restoration project (and I ended up with a bunch of dead bugs from Brazil – which was indeed one of my life goals since I was about 8 years old!).

Is the Lep Soc collection policy unethical? Well first, I’m a bit biased as I helped refine parts of the statement. But claiming that a statement that urges people to follow the law is “Unethical” is a bit mysterious. There is really just one thing in play here, and that is the obligation that the Lep Soc has to its membership. The language was crafted shortly after all the craziness here in the states with people poaching bugs in National Parks, trading endangered species, etc. People’s lives were shredded during this period. The statement is guidance which points out that if you, an insect collector, want to pursue your hobby in peace, then you should make sure you are in compliance with the law. All the laws… It would be unethical for the Lep Soc not to make that clear to its membership moving forward.

John

[exoticimports]

Awesome John, incredible insights from "the inside"

I am surprised concerning your thoughts that some museums would support specimen collecting efforts, as opposed to readily accept existing collections. This has not been my experience; as I'd noted, when I inquired about affiliations, I got nowhere. I reached out to (how to say?) hardcore amateur entomologists who DID have affiliations and generally the response was "gotta write papers. gotta know the insiders."

As far as ethics and following the law, I understand your very valid point. No organization is going to (or can, in USA, legally) promote law breaking. That said, Econ laws are often not in the best interest of Econ, particularly in the big picture. Not that it would ever happen, but it would be good if LepSoc et. al. rallied the troops (and politicians) against some provisions of Lacey and CITES. And, while much to-do has been made about collecting of rare butterflies in national parks (which are closed to collecting) remember that these butterflies just happen to be in national parks- and only tiny parts of national parks. There are plenty of truly endangered butterflies outside national parks, and a vast majority of space in national parks could be collected, providing significant insights, with no ill effect.

Chuck

[kevinkk]

Parks- the butterflies roam, I suppose it depends on how big the park is, I mentioned in one post, being kicked out, aka asked to stop
collecting, after I'd paid to be there and set up a campsite, I think that was a state park in Calif. I had no idea it was prohibited,
and the rules weren't posted, most of us are aware of National parks. I didn't get my camp fee back either.
I can see the reason for the rules, but really, like I said in the post, I could just sit outside the park and do what I please.

Conversely, you are much more likely to have an issue with other people if you're in a park with a net, unless, you're a student doing
research, and even then your activities may be unwanted if you're taking things out.

[Chris Grinter]

The National Parks are not closed to collecting, they require permits. They aren't simple to get and each park is managed differently, but I think it's fair to require permits in protected areas, that's the whole point after all. If the butterflies exist out of the parks then they can be collected there. But you're right the NPS does not apply these rules equally, there are some 75 areas that are managed by the Park Service that allow for hunting! But the hunting lobby is large and comes with money. The LepSoc lobby is nonexistent and we have merely 1,000 members. Not a lot of troops to rally. Speaking as a LepSoc board member, I would not support using our funds to support a lobbyist; but our members have been successful in going at it on their own. Eric Metzler changed the law in Ohio. Anyone is free (and really, encouraged) to submit to the News (free to members), or Journal, so if you want to rally the troops you'd be very welcome to write something up and start your own movement.

[exoticimports]

I think that was part of the point Chris. If you want a permit for Zion you will probably get it, in part due to your affiliation. Joe Average probably won’t. Museum led research, or approved research, may well get the permits; which ones will assist? As I’d mentioned previously I inquired at several well known museums and got nowhere, despite their pleasure at having recieved many rare specimens.

[Chris Grinter]

Never hurts to keep trying. I have several volunteers that lead collecting work in National Parks as leads on permits. All of the material comes here though - NPS would never let material stay in personal collections (I'm not opposed to this if we have less restrictive permits).