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Post by exoticimports on Oct 14, 2020 4:13:00 GMT -8
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Post by bandrow on Oct 14, 2020 5:51:08 GMT -8
Greetings, I shouldn't post without checking some facts - but hell, who does?  I've heard that Amazon pays no federal income taxes. Discarding returns is probably a useful way of increasing their "losses" to help bolster their argument for not paying up. I have a brother in Columbus, Ohio that buys this kind of stuff at third-party warehouse auctions as a "hobby". He got 3 fluorescent hanging light units for 10 cents each, and bought my parents a brand-new floor-waxing machine for $2.00. He bought 10 aluminum walkers for 50 cents each and resold them for around $10.00 each. He makes a decent amount of extra money - but the time involved can become excessive, especially as an "on-the-side" venture. He used to purchase junked jet skis, refurbish them and re-sell. He once bought 6 jet skis, all on trailers, for about $200 each. He swapped parts around and eventually resold 4 at over $1,000 each, and sold all the trailers separately for a couple hundred bucks apiece. Not sure if Amazon has an outlet warehouse to sell overstock or returns, or whether they sell returns in bulk to resale vendors, but they sure don't need to be polluting the planet with perfectly good products... obscene... Cheers! Bandrow |
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Post by nomihoudai on Oct 14, 2020 8:03:40 GMT -8
"Tons of usable items get thrown away by humans on a daily basis" - There, fixed that for you. The problem is not just amazon but everywhere. It's just that with amazon you are able to quantify the numbers and people have the false assumption that they would have the power to change it.
I ran an online business doing resale, every month I would end up with stuff that was slightly damaged. Initially, I repaired them but figured out quickly that my time is more valuable than that. I would then pack it into a lot and auction it off. The heavily damaged stuff I would discard as a courtesy to my customers.
The only negative eBay feedback I ever received was from bulk butterflies I auctioned off to be able to move. The guy never messaged me to sort it out, I would have reimbursed the entire money to him when he wasn't happy. After that incident I trashed most of the stuff that wasn't in a very good condition.
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Post by Paul K on Oct 14, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -8
How about thousands of unsold new cars trashed in new cars junk yards?
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Post by kevinkk on Oct 14, 2020 9:36:32 GMT -8
I read the article on the link.
A surprise? Maybe. A shame? Yes.
Clearly it's the bottom line, or dollar that counts, and it is pervasive
everywhere, we used to have a recycling program here where I live, where a
person could dump used roofing shingles for less, and they'd recycle them into
something. Not anymore, besides people abusing the parameters, our legislature,
in it's infinite intelligence made it even more difficult to dispose of construction
debris by making a person sign their life away to dump construction debris because
of asbestos, ok, so yes, asbestos is bad- in a closed area, or where a person might
inhale dust particles for years.
Amazon- they are not going to be stopped,free shipping, returns, a liberal replacement policy,
I've got duplicates or things for free just because shipping was too slow, and instead of
figuring out the issue, they just sent another or refunded my money, only to have the item
show up later on.
Give up your smartphone? Your Ipad? Your flat screen tv? Your new car every year? I've always been mystified
how car companies stay in business, my service vehicle is 20 years old. Remember that when your contractor
pulls up in a 40 or 50 thousand dollar truck.
This is one of the agreements we entered into with cheap tech, and an agreement that could be fixed. People are not
going to change on a large enough scale to make a difference, you can try to argue that, but it's got to be forced
upon companies to police themselves, and the only one with any chance at that are our crooked and self serving politicians,
so we can most likely expect things to get worse.
Maybe some post-apocalyptic roving bands of mutants will benefit from the buried garbage.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 15, 2020 1:22:37 GMT -8
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Post by yorky on Oct 15, 2020 8:11:56 GMT -8
I had a "discussion "the other day with a friend who insists that he needs a new car every 2 years, costs him a fortune to impress the neighbours (he doesn't) but he thinks that it gives him some sort of moral high ground as he runs a clean, non polluting vehicle. He also pointed out that my 18 year old, low mileage, well serviced peugeot is bad for the environment and that I should change it.
I took great delight in educating him and pointed out that actually he was doing great harm to the environment by getting rid of a perfectly serviceable car that had already been built,that the natural resources used to keep building new cars that he keeps buying and the carbon footprint is huge and unnecessary and that by keeping an old car on the road and servicing it regularly are the greenest form of motoring and recycling that there is and that my carbon footprint is significantly smaller than his "throw it away because I'm bored" attitude. I also pointed out that I use second hand parts from scrap yards as my car is common and generic with old technology so therefore easy to work on myself and that the parts I use have already been manufactured so zero carbon footprint. The waste on this planet is for the most part unnecessary with just a little thought and a mend and make do attitude it's also a significantly cheaper way to live.
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Post by jshuey on Oct 15, 2020 11:25:19 GMT -8
This is interesting in light of Amazon's pledge to become completely carbon neutral and even make up for past CO2 emissions by 2040. Here in the Midwest, they are in the process of building a series of windfarms to generate their own power - mostly in Ohio. And they just pledged $10M a year for 10 years to work on natural sequestration solutions (create carbon markets, reforest / protect important forests, an so on). See here for a press release. www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/amazon-invests-10-million-for-forest-conservation-in-climate-change-plan.htmlSo, I wonder if this "landfill of other company's junk" is included in their footprint calculations?? And in the spirit of full disclosure, I work for The Nature Conservancy, an no, we got none-of-that-stinkin money here in Indiana! (we sent in a proposal for ~$2.5M). As I recall, a fair hunk when to upstate New York or Pennsylvania for forest conservation. And Brazil - being Amazon and all.... John |
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Post by kevinkk on Oct 15, 2020 17:14:35 GMT -8
Carbon neutral. What a scam. All the electric vehicles still need to have power generated somewhere, ok, so they claim they'll use wind- in Ohio?
That's a long way from the Amazon facility in Hillsboro Oregon, where power is generated mostly by salmon killing hydro power,
as well as the airplanes I'm just going to assume they use, how is an airplane ever going to be carbon neutral? I'm aware of gliders, and
a few solar powered, and human powered experimental aircraft, but I don't think they're carrying cargo.
There will be pushback if they try wind here, eastern Oregon is mostly non-liberal and that will probably go for acres of solar panels as well, unless
they've already bought up land. The rest of the state is more densely populated already. There are some wind generators in the east part of the state,
but they are spaced far apart, and a lot of the land over there is BLM, and ranching, I was always amused driving by mile after mile of barbwire
fencing with the occasional sign- "this is your public land".
I think it's a scam, anyone can say "by 2040 we're going to do X" that's 20 years from now. By then, a lot of us are going to be dead...
probably. I'm 56, so maybe I'll see it, you never know.
I'd take a guess, and say it's called "Amazon" after the giant snaking river with flooding. Descriptive. "Octopus" might have been more descriptive.
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Post by exoticimports on Oct 16, 2020 4:35:17 GMT -8
From a corporate perspective, it makes sense to dump the stuff for a couple reasons:
1. Donating or selling cheap is competition. Instead of buying a new $60 backpack, somebody buys it from Goodwill for $15. Instead of selling a $75 guitar, Amazon sells a $5 set of strings.
2. Tax rebate incentives have been cut drastically, and the rules for assigning value (in USA) have made it illogical to bother.
3. "Used" means never before sold, so even if recycled (re-sold) these items would not command the price (= profit) that new items do, which consuming the same logistics and costs.
MicroSoft/ Gates, Amazon, Eghey, Tesla, etc have done a great marketing job promoting the for-profit organizations as altruistic. They are anything but, and both extreme-left and extreme-right have documented that time and time again. But the soccer moms (Karens) want to believe, so they do. Meanwhile, the oil companies, despite piling billions into eco-studies and such, can't shake the Evil Empire perception. There is no difference between Amazon and Shell except in public perception.
Chuck
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 16, 2020 4:41:32 GMT -8
Yes it makes sense from a financial perspective.
That's why your government SHOULD vote a law to ban such practice.
Other countries have done it.
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Post by exoticimports on Oct 16, 2020 5:32:06 GMT -8
Yes it makes sense from a financial perspective. That's why your government SHOULD vote a law to ban such practice. Other countries have done it. In all fairness, doing so would be the government fixing it's own stupidity. USA already piles laws on top of laws, making them impossible to reconcile or understand. In the past, an individual or organization could donate and assign a value to the donation, and part of that would be deducted from taxes. Win-win. Except the government thought people were over-valuing the donation (of course they were. But it's not like they get ALL that value cut from taxes, only a portion of it.) So the response was to create these stupid evaluations, particularly for autos and boats, which roughly says the donated vehicle value cannot be determined until the vehicle actually sells. Which, of course, means (1) donor is at the mercy of the recipient to properly market and sell the donation at current market value and (2) donor may have to wait months and/ or across a tax filing date. Net result, nobody donates boats or autos anymore- they get junked or left to ruin the environment. Similarly, donation of computing goods has gone to about zero, and instead they go to destruction/ landfill; in fact they incinerate (to be clear: burn) some of the parts not far from me! It stinks! What USA should do is eliminate every law written after 1920 and start fresh. In a generally free market, the government needs to incentivize individuals and organizations to take a particular action, not make the action mandatory. Case in point, the issue with overseas production in lieu of domestic production. The government piles on tariffs, limits, etc and exploits the internal fight for political reasons; the solution is simple- stop taxing the crap out of companies manufacturing in USA. Want Amazon to recycle? Give them tax or carbon credits to do so. Voila. Problem solved. Not that any of this will actually be rectified. Politicians gain power and wealth by making new laws, not by removing ineffective laws. Chuck |
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Post by jshuey on Oct 16, 2020 7:26:34 GMT -8
Carbon neutral. What a scam. All the electric vehicles still need to have power generated somewhere, ok, so they claim they'll use wind- in Ohio? That's a long way from the Amazon facility in Hillsboro Oregon, where power is generated mostly by salmon killing hydro power, as well as the airplanes I'm just going to assume they use, how is an airplane ever going to be carbon neutral? I'm aware of gliders, and a few solar powered, and human powered experimental aircraft, but I don't think they're carrying cargo. There will be pushback if they try wind here, eastern Oregon is mostly non-liberal and that will probably go for acres of solar panels as well, unless they've already bought up land. The rest of the state is more densely populated already. There are some wind generators in the east part of the state, but they are spaced far apart, and a lot of the land over there is BLM, and ranching, I was always amused driving by mile after mile of barbwire fencing with the occasional sign- "this is your public land". I think it's a scam, anyone can say "by 2040 we're going to do X" that's 20 years from now. By then, a lot of us are going to be dead... probably. I'm 56, so maybe I'll see it, you never know. I'd take a guess, and say it's called "Amazon" after the giant snaking river with flooding. Descriptive. "Octopus" might have been more descriptive. Ohio is the hot spot for Amazon wind in the Midwest. My guess is that they target other productive areas across the globe. I know they have wind fields in Europe as well, and I'm guessing at scattered locations across the US. The Ohio wind fields "over-produce" Amazon's regional electrical needs, with the excess released to the open market (at least that is how I understand it). And they are in the process of creating storage in Ohio to optimize the system. And the $100M commitment with TNC is part of an effort to sequester both the carbon emissions that can't avoided in real time, plus past emissions. My guess is that it will mostly go towards tropical reforestation, where high growth rates pull 5-10X as much carbon from the atmosphere as do projects in temperate regions. A few years ago we did a voluntary $50M project in SE Brazil based on carbon sequestration for some US eclectic companies and automobile manufacturers that targets water buffalo pastures for purchase and reforestation adjacent to one of the largest Atlantic forest remnants in the country. Projects like this can do amazing things to restore fragmented ecosystems and this one reconnected coastal montane forest to estuaries by reforesting those sea-level pastures. I was lucky enough to do some work at that site a few years ago with help from some great people in Brazil - great fun and great bugs...(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317551476_Butterfly_communities_respond_to_structural_changes_in_forest_restorations_and_regeneration_in_lowland_Atlantic_Forest_Parana_Brazil). And yes, I'd like to think you can be totally carbon neutral using sequestration and common sense. A few years back, I helped pay for the purchase and reforestation at a project here in Indiana that will pull, for my portion of the project, an average of 5 tons of CO2 per year out of the atmosphere per year for the next 100 years. Combine that with my energy conscious life style, travel related offset payments for work, and my odd-looking electric blue Prius Prime (which has averaged 97.4 mpg in my city-centric driving over the last 2.5 years), and I think that I'm getting there. And yes, I too may be dead by 2040, but the point is that my son and his kids won't be. So I'd like to do my personal best to decrease the challenges they will face in what will certainly be one of the most challenging times humanity has ever faced. And Jeff Bezos has publicly stated essentially the same sentiments at the corporate level. So I give him credit for like-mindedness and altruism. john |
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Post by kevinkk on Oct 16, 2020 8:48:34 GMT -8
A lot of spot on posts about the subject. We talked about this thread last night, and it's perception, people want to believe they're
doing the right thing, and without investigative reporting, "we" don't find out the real truth.
I know there will be those that came after us, it crosses my mind when going to the transfer station- we don't have a landfill here, we donate
to Goodwill, and other agencies that pass things along, but not everything is recyclable, or economically feasible, although I've seen a clip
about styrofoam recycling, there's a lot of that that gets buried, but it's expensive. No one wants a used bed..for the most part.
I agree, just about every rule or law written even 20 years ago needs revisited, things change, and they change fast sometimes, even a 20 year old
law can be outdated.
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I've heard that Amazon pays no federal income taxes. Discarding returns is probably a useful way of increasing their "losses" to help bolster their argument for not paying up.
