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Post by Paul K on Sept 4, 2020 6:44:04 GMT -8
Same on this side of the lake. Yesterday ( Sep 3 ) I saw same species as you did except no Papilio ( I saw one P.polyxenes female ovipositing about a week ego).
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Post by Paul K on Sept 12, 2020 8:28:11 GMT -8
Today September 12 I went to check out a local wasteland in western Toronto and I was surprised to find 12 species still active.
Papilio polyxenes Pieris rapae Colias philodice Colias eurytheme Phyciodes cocyta Nymphalis l-album Nymphalis antiopa Vanessa atalanta Junonia coenia Limenitis archippus Danaus plexippus Cupido comyntas
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leptraps
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Posts: 2,397
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Post by leptraps on Sept 12, 2020 12:59:15 GMT -8
You guys made me go look. I have eleven drawers of Papilio glaucus. I have specimens from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan from May, June and early July. North East Ohio. Late April, May, June July and August and a late September specimen.
Virginia:
South West Virginia from late March to early September. I have an early October specimen in excellent condition from Poverty Hollow, Montgomery County. Along the New River near Austinburg, Wythe County I have specimens from late September and from Carroll County,I have several specimens which includes several "dark" females.
The most interesting area was on the North side of Big Jack Mountain near Blue Grass. They appeared in late April and the late record was 16 September 1981. However, the wide Valley on the south side of Big Jack Mountain by late August they were done for the year.
Eastern Virginia and Eastern North Carolina:
Late February to early September. The spring specimens were typical. However, the late August early September specimen were monsters.
I will skip to Florida. Although I collected them in northern Florida from March to late September. In the Pan Handle they could be found from early March to early October. From Lake Okeechobee north they began to fly in March and ended by mid October. However, the most incredible location was Jane's Scenic Drive in Fakahatchee Strand WMA in Collier County. In early September they could be monstrous. I never found them in the Florida Key's.
I have read several paper's on Papilio glaucus, subspecies include canadensis, australus and maynardi. There are numbers of forms. Here in NE Ohio I only see dark females in July, August and early September.
I have made many collecting trips to western Kentucky. I have several specimens from early October.
The debate over what are "subspecies", "forms" and "species" continues to this day.
I would encourage you to collect specimens from your area. Especially dark females.
I collected some wild looking females in Virginia that were part yellow and part black.
Does anybody North of the Great Lake's find Papilio glaucus in September, especially late September or even early October??
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Post by Paul K on Sept 12, 2020 16:54:33 GMT -8
I have never seen P.glaucus in September here in southern Ontario. Late August would be the last sighting.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 12, 2020 17:56:34 GMT -8
I have seen glaucus on the south side of Lake Ontario in September, including last year. Not this year. Definitely finished.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 6:03:45 GMT -8
Leroy, thanks for you observations. Your previously posted photo of maynardi is spectacular.
It's ironic that something so common is yet ill defined. As a kid, many of our reference volumes spoke only of P glaucus and two broods. We now know that it's more than one species, the two broods in some regions are two species, these species interbreed, and the ranges are changing. Data is also often incorrect, particularly that based on historic records, and now photos alone which are insufficient to determine where an observed (photographed only) specimen fits, yet it gets pigeon-holed and becomes "data"- flawed data.
It would be incredible to have an exhaustive study of the thousands of existing specimens.
I suppose it's been done before, however I cannot find anything that accurately indicates where the cline is for the dark female; and I wonder the genetic difference from the race(?) with the yellow female.
On that topic a search of butterfliesandmoths.org (recognizing the suspect nature of the data) shows, for the dark female form: 0 of 191 for New York; PA has 419 records, and while I didn't count the black females, there are plenty there, from central PA and particularly around Philadelphia.
This is of interest to me personally, as in the mid 1980s I twice surveyed the Brandy Wine Valley (Chester, PA area) and observed plenty of yellow glaucus, but zero black glaucus. Notably, contemporary records of black females from this same region are now abundant!
Unfortunately, butterfliesandmoths.org photo records for glaucus in PA start in 2010, which is about the same time that glaucus and cresphontes moved north into the Finger Lakes NY region, arguably due to warming. Thus, a study on possible northward migration of the black-female race will require data accumulation from the good ol' standby- curated specimens.
Chuck
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Post by 58chevy on Sept 13, 2020 6:59:31 GMT -8
Does anybody have data on the range of "intermediate" glaucus (somewhat dark but also yellow)? I find both dark form and yellow form in my area (Houston, TX), but I've never seen an intermediate form. I'd like to collect some specimens, but don't know where to go.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 7:48:14 GMT -8
Does anybody have data on the range of "intermediate" glaucus (somewhat dark but also yellow)? I find both dark form and yellow form in my area (Houston, TX), but I've never seen an intermediate form. I'd like to collect some specimens, but don't know where to go. Need a project? Go thru butterfliesandmoths.org for Papilio glaucus and record the location of intermediate forms. Having recently looked at it, I can tell you that the form seems to be common in SE PA. Here's the images for PA, no way to break out only the intermediate form, but you'll see them www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45174&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESCOnly seven images for Delaware, but one is intermediate www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45182&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESC75 records for NJ, including black and intermediate, though the intermediate seem more black than in PA www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45202&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESC110 records for MD; mostly yellow but a few black and intermediate (note also some spectacular specimens) www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45202&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESC115 records for WV, including black and a couple dusky intermediate www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45202&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESC219 records for VA; oddly low proportion of black specimens, not reflective of my observations in VA; a few intermediate www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45202&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESC216 records for OH; only one I consider truly intermediate www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-glaucus?region=45206&sort_by=field_recorddate_value&sort_order=DESCSo, for the NE, it looks like SE PA is currently the known hot spot for both black and intermediate. Now, scrolling again through PA, the proportion of photo records (which, again, take with a grain of salt) of dark females decreases with record age- and that's over the course of only about five years. But of course, as of right now the PA flight period is over; most recent record is 03 Sept, and prior to that 20 August. Chuck
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 8:08:17 GMT -8
P.glaucus does not occur in Kingston, I just re-read this, and it made me wonder. I observed Papilio glaucus in Clayton NY in early August 2020. Kingston to Clayton is 32km (20 miles). Latitudes: Kingston 44.23, Clayton 44.14; a difference in latitude of less than 10km. Granted, there is a river of separation, and I know places in my own town where glaucus is either absent or common; yet, I find it difficult to believe glaucus is on the south side of the river but not the north. Chuck
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Post by Paul K on Sept 13, 2020 9:19:58 GMT -8
P.glaucus does not occur in Kingston, I just re-read this, and it made me wonder. I observed Papilio glaucus in Clayton NY in early August 2020. Kingston to Clayton is 32km (20 miles). Latitudes: Kingston 44.23, Clayton 44.14; a difference in latitude of less than 10km. Granted, there is a river of separation, and I know places in my own town where glaucus is either absent or common; yet, I find it difficult to believe glaucus is on the south side of the river but not the north. Chuck This is according to Eurytides who lives in Kingston and studies P.glaucus and canadensis. He told me that in Kingston area only P.canadensis occurs.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 11:17:02 GMT -8
I just re-read this, and it made me wonder. I observed Papilio glaucus in Clayton NY in early August 2020. Kingston to Clayton is 32km (20 miles). Latitudes: Kingston 44.23, Clayton 44.14; a difference in latitude of less than 10km. Granted, there is a river of separation, and I know places in my own town where glaucus is either absent or common; yet, I find it difficult to believe glaucus is on the south side of the river but not the north. Chuck This is according to Eurytides who lives in Kingston and studies P.glaucus and canadensis. He told me that in Kingston area only P.canadensis occurs. Interesting- I didn't catch it, but I saw it closely and it was definitely tending toward glaucus, as all do at that time of year. Maybe he'll chime in. Chuck
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Post by eurytides on Sept 13, 2020 12:05:04 GMT -8
We have two flights of tiger swallowtails in Kingston, ON. The first flight is P. canadensis. The second flight is a mysterious population which isn’t canadensis, glaucus, or F1 hybrid. This is currently under investigation. I haven’t see the material from south of the river. It might be glaucus or it might be this mystery tiger. See the article I posted earlier.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 12:39:46 GMT -8
We have two flights of tiger swallowtails in Kingston, ON. The first flight is P. canadensis. The second flight is a mysterious population which isn’t canadensis, glaucus, or F1 hybrid. This is currently under investigation. I haven’t see the material from south of the river. It might be glaucus or it might be this mystery tiger. See the article I posted earlier. Yeah, I read that. Great read- except like a mystery novel where the killer still isn't identified. So give us a hint- what do you think it is? Chuck
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 13, 2020 13:43:36 GMT -8
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Post by eurytides on Sept 13, 2020 14:09:33 GMT -8
I’ve seen some of the prelim molecular data (publication pending) and to me, it looks like we have a localized cryptic species, sort of like appalachiensis. It probably originated as some sort of hybrid between canadensis and glaucus a long time ago when the ice sheets were doing their thing and causing various tiger swallowtail populations to shift and fragment. This mystery tiger takes a lot longer to break diapause and emerge later in the summer, which is why for a long time people thought this was glaucus. There is a good degree of temporal reproductive isolation from canadensis, which is univoltine.
I’m raising some of this mystery tiger swallowtail currently and it looks like it also has one generation and is an obligate diapauser.
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