Callosamia Angulifera dying off. Help!!!!!!

[bjc2278304]

I've raised various species of Saturniidae over the years including Io, Luna, Cercropia, Promethea, and attacus atlas. All successful. This is my first time raising Angulifera and I'm having problems. I started with 20 ova and lost many in 1st or second instar feeding them tulip tree. Ended up with 8 4th instar and now I'm really having problems..... all fixed themselves to leaves and begun the shedding process to 5th instar. 1 somehow became loose from its leaf and fell to the inside of the cage and never recovered. 1 shed its skin, ate it and then tonight when I was watching to see if it started eating again started acting weird and vomited a lot of red brown liquid that rolled down the leaf. Never have seen this before. I raise these on tulip tree clippings in an outdoor mesh cage in the shade. Leaves are from the same source and don't suspect insecticides. The other 6 larvae haven't finished shedding their skin yet. I'm watching 1 bite the dust about every other day now....

[kevinkk]

Your issue sounds a lot like what I and presumably other people experience from time to time. I've had it occur usually with
Hyalophora.
It's a death sentence unless you can isolate each larva and disinfect the leaves they're eating. It shows up for reasons unknown as
far as I know.
A couple years ago, a breeder gave me a significant amount of information about disinfecting and his theories on lethal and sub-lethal
infections. A lot of information that had to have taken a lot of trial and error.

The short version is, he used a disinfectant called "Oxine" in the following respective concentrations- a mist sprayed on leaves (a fine mist)
500ppm oxine, breaking it down, it works out to 1 gallon water to 100 ml oxine with about 2tsp citric acid as a catalyst.
5ppm in branch water, which you could make using the 500 ppm solution, if you used a 1 quart spray bottle, it would be 1/2 oz of the 500ppm.

The claim was he hadn't lost a larva since using this method.

I used it the year I had trouble, and managed to save 2 larva, even though they were sick. The best way is prevention, and spraying
leaves before giving them to the larva.

My conclusions about the whole thing, was that the pathogen is sporadic, and doesn't occur each year, I used his method to try and save
my brood, and it worked for the 2 larva, but I don't use it every year, I have the disinfectant and it's ready to use if needed, that's my approach.
Wherever pathogens come from, it's probably some natural thing for population control, I'm not a pathologist, overcrowding could be
an issue, ventilation, and while I know you said you have your larva outdoors, I've had it occur inside the house, and outdoors in sleeves,
it could be the weather for all I know.
When I had my first experience with this type of pathogen, all the larva were outdoors, the next time, and in a different state entirely,
it also occurred outside, the last time, it was indoors.

[kevinkk]

I remembered something about this issue I want to point out-
I was given the help about disinfecting from a customer, who had bought Hyalophora euryalus ova from me,
mine started dying off, with the blackish fluid,around the 2nd and 3rd instar.
I emailed him and he was having no problems.
That would tend to support a conclusion that it's something in the environment,something he avoided by using his disinfecting
process.

[Paul K]

I have had same problem with my Actias luna larvae.
I caught female and it laid 85 eggs.
Newly hatched larvae refused to eat and started to die off, drying and shrinking. Some of them get little bigger and then some had dark brown fluid coming from their mouth causing a death. They were crawling around and showed no interest to eat.
After all 15 larvae survived and they slowly getting bigger.

I also have in the same room in other basket just standing next to luna H.cecropia. I had total 300 eggs and they were all fine till end of 3rd instar. I despatched 240 to local forest as they just overwhelmed me and I’m keeping now about 60. They all perfectly fine and growing huge.