cut food plants

[kevinkk]

As many bad ideas, this one seemed like a good one at the time.
Where I live on the Oregon coast, a warm day is in the mid 60's, so it slows
down any caterpillars I use sleeves for.

This season hasn't gone well for ova, but I did get a pairing of Automeris io and 5 or 6
dozen larva out of it.
Typically, I would have put all the hatchlings, or even the pieces of paper sack in a sleeve and let
nature take it's course, a course which would have been slower than rearing them inside.

So- this time, the cherry tree is doing great, there are a lot of little branches to cut, so I got out the tall
Reptarium and my full spectrum led light and started that way. I've had a miserable time with cut cherry,
daily changes were needed to keep the food fresh.

Today, when there should have been another 4 weeks or so for some of the larva, I noticed some beginning to spin.
I understand dwarfism and why it happens. I don't want midget moths, so I took them all outside and sleeved them.

Anyone have any similar experience with cherry? The whole thing is mystifying to me, I see pictures on Actias of people
using boxes with cut branches just tossed in, I had my branches in fresh water, and while some would last perhaps 36 hours
before wilting, others would be dry in half that time.

If you're doing a study on midget moths...let me know. But what I'm curious about is the cherry, maybe it's the norm, usually I do sleeves,
even though it takes longer, but it's problematic at times, during molting and spinning, with cooler weather popping in at inopportune
moments.
I'm doing some wrong, and am prepared for a variety of replies.

[bobw]

It depends on the type of tree. Some, such as cherry, willow or elm, wilt very quickly; others, like pine and liquidambar, last a long time; others, like oak are somewhere in between.

[exoticimports]

I’ve always tried to give Saturniidae larvae a 2 day supply of cut branches simply thrown in with them. Toss in new food, they move to it, remove old branches.

By watching larvae, you’d know when they are in the final istar, which for Sats doesn’t last four weeks so I’m a bit perplexed.

Dwarfism is usually related to food type and population pressure.

Chuck

[kevinkk]

Thanks guys,
what I meant by "4 weeks", was that some of the larva should have had another 4 weeks or so before being large enough for spinning.
Overcrowding with Automeris is something I'm not completely sure about, they feed in clusters when small, and there were
many which had molted to the green and striped color of io, and others which were still smaller.This is my second or third time
raising io, I wanted them indoors, because last season there were only a few that actually spun cocoons, the rest simply pupated,
something I attributed to the weather outdoors.

I looked for the typical expulsion of the gut material and didn't see anything, it was weird.
Maybe they were too crowded. One thing I am sure about, is experience is valuable, and there's only a few ways
to get it.

Maybe moving them outdoors will save the remaining larva, it remains to be seen. As far as keeping the branches in water, I got my first
information about rearing from Villiard's antique book and just stuck with that, I have noticed Liquidamber lasts a long time, like pine
and Eucalyptus, even cut Fennel lasted a while in water, but I think that's because of the stem structure being able to draw water.

[Deleted]

Cherry has lasted real well for me. I cut the twig stem at a 45 degree angle and I have to say that it is among the longest lasting foods I’ve used. Go figure.

[exoticimports]

All my Sats were raised indoors. Io too. In aquariums, some with mesh tops some without. No real care, new in, old out.

Only problem I had was getting home from the pub at 2am to find that hundreds of Lunas had run out of walnut and were in my bed and everywhere else. I discovered this when I laid my weary head on the pillow and felt something damp and odd. It was a long night.

Chuck

[kevinkk]

Jul 25, 2020 17:55:38 GMT -8 exoticimports said:

All my Sats were raised indoors. Io too. In aquariums, some with mesh tops some without. No real care, new in, old out.

Only problem I had was getting home from the pub at 2am to find that hundreds of Lunas had run out of walnut and were in my bed and everywhere else. I discovered this when I laid my weary head on the pillow and felt something damp and odd. It was a long night.

Chuck

That reminds me of the year I raised luna in my apartment on live Liquidamber trees in 5 gallon pots I bought at the local nursery, probably the most
expensive brood of luna in history...
During the last instar, they went through two 6 foot tall trees each day, I'd wake up as the halide came on, and start hearing droppings on the tarp.
I have no idea what the neighbors thought I was doing carrying trees in the apartment every morning.
Later when I moved, I found several cocoons tucked away under shelving, but amazingly, with no cage at all, most did spin on the trees.

When I cut branches, I try to cut them at an angle and if the branches aren't wilted, will recut them a day later- I did learn a little bit in horticulture.

[foxxdoc]

Many years ago I was raising Cecropia ( maybe ) on cherry and the season was ending. leaves were darkening and crispy, so I cut a bunch of large branches and soaked them in water then plastic with bottom open and hung them in a walkin cooler and finished the cats w refrigerated leaves when the out door leaves were all gone.

TOM

[foxxdoc]

By the way;

I rarely raise anymore but when I do its on my screened in pool area with purchased potted plants with no sleeves. lucky me. get a screen in enclosure. no sleeves.

[exoticimports]

Aug 3, 2020 10:41:47 GMT -8 foxxdoc said:

Many years ago I was raising Cecropia ( maybe ) on cherry and the season was ending. leaves were darkening and crispy, so I cut a bunch of large branches and soaked them in water then plastic with bottom open and hung them in a walkin cooler and finished the cats w refrigerated leaves when the out door leaves were all gone.

TOM

I tried that with Actias atlas. As the willows turned to yellow and started dropping leaves I froze some branches, but as soon as thawed the leaves would drop off and the caterpillars wouldn't eat, thus ending my atlas rearing.


Chuck

[foxxdoc]

I think I was successful because the leaves never froze. they were in a walkin refrigerator not a freezer. Some of the cut flower trade uses ultra cool.

Tom

[kevinkk]

Aug 4, 2020 6:52:01 GMT -8 foxxdoc said:

I think I was successful because the leaves never froze. they were in a walkin refrigerator not a freezer. Some of the cut flower trade uses ultra cool.

Tom

Interesting you mention this method. Back to my antique rearing book by Villiard, he mentions a similar method.

Also- interesting...now that the io larva are all sleeved outdoors, they're all doing fine. I'm not entirely sure if I've learned anything from
the experience, save for the obvious.
Although I know what saturniid silk looks like, and I swear some were looking like they were beginning cocoons.

[Adam Cotton]

Maybe they were spinning silk pads to cling to while moulting. Some Lepidoptera species also create a silk pad on a leaf just to rest on every day away from the soft leaves at the tip of the branch.

Adam.

[foxxdoc]

Antique !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually spoke to Paul Villiard  about this process back when.

Antique !!!!

I guess its been awhile.

Tom