|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jul 22, 2020 3:44:44 GMT -8
I posted this in another thread that was deleted, so I want to bring it up, once, for consideration.
Adam answers- probably daily- the question on how to post photos on Insectnet.com. The reason he has to answer these is because new members (obviously younger members) expect that insecnet.com, like all modern forums, hosts photos and has a very simple mechanism for including photos in posts.
Notably, very few then bother to post photos, because it's outdated and cumbersome to host elsewhere and add HTML to a post.
Those who use FB, Eb@y, and other sites (not just huge sites like those juggernauts, but smaller, insectnet.com-size sites) expect to be able to select an image from their mobile and have it automatically uploaded and embedded. Hosting elsewhere takes time and effort.
As a marketing website analyst, I have observed that forums requiring offsite image hosting and/or are not mobile friendly are suffering a slow death. Younger people come, and leave. Older members don't bother with the hassle of generating valuable content.
On that latter topic, instead of valuable content what the forums are filled with are rubbish; off-topic junk that's easy to type. Attitudes are poor.
One research forum in which I participate recently underwent a major modernization. The older members complained- as they do when change comes. But the new, mobile-savvy crowd embraced the change, as did I. Notably though, it didn't take long for the older crowd to learn, and embrace, the ease with with images from their phone could be incorporated from their phone. In a very short period (weeks) new posts jumped about 50%, participation increased markedly, and perhaps most important real, valuable content replaced rubbish talk.
One of the greatest benefits of the modernization above is an attitude change. With such ease to creating valuable content, member attitude has improved; members strive to build on, rather than critique, the work of others.
I'd like to see insectnet.com (and/or the sister site) modernized. Obviously for my own convenience, as I don't like to spend the time hosting images and inserting in a post. But more so, for the drastic improvements in participation and content I've observed elsewhere. And, so that this forum can survive.
Thanks,
Chuck
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Jul 22, 2020 6:16:41 GMT -8
Hi Chuck
I agree on most of what you say.
I myself own several websites and make a living from them (in the luxury watch business) so I know these topics very well.
There are various options, all of them have advantages and issues.
1/ I could open attachments on both forums but it would cost about 1200€ per year in addition to what I pay everyyear.
Who would pay for that ? Are members here ready to pay 10€/year to have access to the forum and classifieds ?
2/ We could switch to a more modern software than proboards but we would lose all the history of these forums (and I refuse that). We would also lose most of the organic traffic which is 60% of our traffic and is very important for our sponsors. And a free forum software can become expensive if the software owner change his business model.
3/ We can keep the current model
My preference goes for number 1 as nothing is free on internet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 22, 2020 7:04:16 GMT -8
Personally I really don't like to use a mobile phone for internet, it's too small and fiddly for my old eyes, brain and hands. I do understand that I am a dinosaur compared to most young people nowadays. As for modern interfaces such as Farcebook ... not for me. wollastoni said: My preference goes for number 1 as nothing is free on internet. I wonder how many members would not want to pay for access to Insectnet/ICF? I suspect it would be quite a few; the membership would end up becoming a small group, possibly not even enough to cover costs, and you would end up losing the sponsors who currently help cover basic costs. Adam. |
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Jul 22, 2020 7:33:58 GMT -8
Thank you Chuck for posting this again. 1/ I could open attachments on both forums but it would cost about 1200€ per year in addition to what I pay everyyear. Who would pay for that ? First of all, it is not my intention to be mean at all, I just like getting straight to the point. Who will pay for it? You Olivier, you would pay for it. You get revenue through the page ads, google ads, eBay affiliate marketing, and yearly donations. The users don't see any of that money. We provide content. So in all fairness, if there is an upgrade it's you that will invest this money. Or you won't, the choice is the choice of the admin. Clark managed to keep the forum free, allow attachments, and even had some money left at the end of the year. Currently, I find a large part of interesting content through Instagram. It's nice for browsing pictures of collections, but it doesn't allow for questions/discussions that a forum does. |
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Jul 22, 2020 7:34:49 GMT -8
Personally I really don't like to use a mobile phone for internet, it's too small and fiddly for my old eyes, brain and hands. I do understand that I am a dinosaur compared to most young people nowadays. As for modern interfaces such as Farcebook ... not for me. wollastoni said: My preference goes for number 1 as nothing is free on internet. I wonder how many members would not want to pay for access to Insectnet/ICF? I suspect it would be quite a few; the membership would end up becoming a small group, possibly not even enough to cover costs, and you would end up losing the sponsors who currently help cover basic costs. Adam. I wouldn't worry much about not owning a smartphone,or using social media, I call it Facebunk. Nothing is free for sure. I've done business with recently joined members, so there are people willing to pay the new joining fee. I do see a lot of familiar persons using Actias, and even there I've had issues uploading pictures, there's a current thread there that was posted by someone addressing that experience. Not 100% computer savvy, even after 25 years. At any rate, it was about 8 years ago I discovered Insectnet and appreciate what it's done for me. New people are clearly popping up, as is obvious by the forum requests for id on tiny little bugs... |
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jul 22, 2020 7:50:11 GMT -8
I prefer to start from the strategic point and work back to a solution.
What are the strategic goals? My guess:
1. Insectnet.com (and sister site) are self funding, preferably revenue generating
2. Organic growth
3. Quality of content
THOUGHTS:
1. Younger users rely on mobile devices; the trend is increasing. Google Analytics can provide current and past usage for type of device. Would traffic (quantity and usage) increase if modern mobile functionality were implemented? I think yes; and also that both will decrease as time goes on if nothing else happens.
2. Organic growth is the opposite of loss. I believe that overall the forum participation is down. One driver of organic growth is reputation as a resource, another is search engine. Both are very much driven by quality of content AND ease of use.
Monetizing is always the key question. There's a website forum I'd love to generate, but I can't figure out how to monetize it (and neither can any other expert I've asked!)
Clearly the ads can generate revenue. Would more traffic generate more revenue? Does that traffic come from current and/or potential forum participants? Would improved content drive traffic to the ads? Would ease of use of the forum?
How to monetize the FORUM? Notes from observations:
1. One friend owns what is now a HUGE website with forum, paying advertisers, marketplace, etc. It started as a newsletter, and now is the largest in the industry. 90% of the content is off-topic. 95% of regular users voluntarily pay a $25/yr subscription fee that provides image hosting and other perks.
2. Another friend owns a forum that formerly was popular. It was not well monetized. It crashed; all photos lost. It's the old school proboards software. Now, traffic is almost zero- people left, didn't come back.
3. Yet another research forum has a very good following, excellent participation. Proboards software. Most active members are 50+ YO. Originally, photos were locally hosted, but a crash lost all the photos and since then photos have to be hosted off-site. At first, everyone use Ph@t@bucket, but with that fiasco most quit posting useful content. Now aside from a few old timers, it's off-topic rabble rousers. New potential users come, and leave. In the old days, many members voluntarily supported at rates of $100 - $500 per year; that's dropped off markedly; many long-time members have quit participation.
4. Finally, as previously mentioned, a botique forum that may or may not have been self-supporting (probably right around break even). Voluntary membership support, with few actually paying since there was no incentive. Even though it was old software, participation was 80% on-topic, as BS was not tolerated. With the new mobile-friendly software participation and content have skyrocketed. Plans for monetization/ revenue are unknown to me. New members do come along, and many stick around, because of the great, helpful attitudes. I expect the forum to pick up many younger members due to the mobile friendly interface.
So that's it in a nutshell, with anecdotal examples. Take away:
1. Lack of on-site hosting (upload) decreases membership, participation, and quality of content.
2. Environment/ attitude if inviting increases content and traffic
3. Rubbish environment drives people away, though this alone isn't enough for mass exodus- but add old, slow software, and that'll do it.
4. Monetization can come via voluntary donations, and is directly tied to traffic and experential satisfaction.
5. Growth is going to come from young people, and young people use mobile devices.
Hope that helps somehow.
Chuck
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Jul 22, 2020 7:54:40 GMT -8
Yes Claude, you are mean.
Clark was so happy with insectnet that he sold it. You should have bought it, it would be so great...
And the forums are the only part of Insectnet that is losing money. Maybe I should just close it, I would earn more money... the forum is only 5% of our visited pages for your info. And 90% of our spendings.
But guess what, I like this forum. I remember when I was 15 yo and discovered other people were sharing the same passion than me all around the world. Just for that, I won’t close it.
|
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Jul 22, 2020 8:04:22 GMT -8
And the forums are the only part of Insectnet that is losing money. Maybe I should just close it, I would earn more money... the forum is only 5% of our visited pages for your info. And 90% of our spendings. As stated before, I do not want to be mean. Chuck has got a point and it is all fair to discuss it. Maybe the moment is not great as we are all a bit tired and many things are happening in the world. Before closing it down, you should do the math and check how much traffic your sites get through the forums and wonder why anyone would pay an advertisement fee on the empty insectnet.com domain. In 2017 my offer was on the table, it was not accepted as supposedly it was not high enough. |
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Jul 22, 2020 8:30:26 GMT -8
I am sorry if your offer wasn’t high enough, but then don’t give me business lessons :-)
Chuck I fully agree with your points. The main issue is we are all dependant of Proboards since Clark decided to work with them :
- they are asking more and more year after year
- they also charge for number of visits
- the non insect ads you see are their ads, not mine
- they won’t let us export proboard contents into another software (that’s the main issue)
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jul 22, 2020 9:29:27 GMT -8
the forum is only 5% of our visited pages for your info. And 90% of our spendings. Indeed! Exactly as I'd expect, and almost identical revenue figures for the seasonal pubs owned by my friends! The pubs make 95% of their money from the bar, and 5% from food. But the food is the big expense- space-based taxes, AirCon, laundry, wait staff. A neophyte accountant would advise to close the restaurant services; the problem is the availability of food, and recurring customers (traffic) is the big draw which gets people TO the bar. Here's my complaints: (1) the interface is antiquated, and I don't want to use it. Neither do some others, who would if it were more friendly. (2) The atmosphere can be grumpy, there are one or two jerks (always will be); I'm not talking about two friends who get into a spat, happens at pubs too. These few jerk(s) drives down traffic and content contribution. Beyond complaint, my concern is that this forum is becoming less relevant. Less good content, less motivation to contribute great content, contribution by a minority of regulars, and few new/ younger members. I'd like to see a thriving, positive forum with LOTS to read! More traffic, more users, more awesome content. How? 1. Moderation. Warn those who occasionally are inappropriate; ban those who are recurrently rude and psychotic. 2. Monetize the forum. #2 is the hard part. "Build it and they will come". I know, it's a catch-22: need the money to bring the audience and revenue, but need to invest big bucks to get that. In fact, most forums/businesses at a crux get sold to a larger business that can afford to invest the high finances required to bring the forum up-to-date. Suggestions: 1. incentivize an annual subscription donation. 2. Get rid of one problem resident, start handing out warnings. Make a better atmosphere. 3. Incentivize and reward regular (like magazine columnists) high-quality content generators. 4. Start a sales/ swap area IN the forum for members with XX "points" and/or paid subscribers. Without seeing the financials, I can't say what the payback period for a major upgrade would be...but the above should boost traffic and revenue. Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by kevinkk on Jul 22, 2020 10:01:11 GMT -8
Exotic Imports suggestion list is interesting. I know from my work, that making money takes work, and not just the actual act of completing
a task. I just got home from spending time with a customer that may or may not pay off.
An amount of money changes hands here, maybe there's a way to monetize that. I think that's all I have right now. After being an Ebay user
since the 90's, I was elated to find Insectnet and it's free services to users.
|
|
|
|
Post by yorky on Jul 22, 2020 12:15:47 GMT -8
When I first joined about 9 years ago there were new posts every few hours. Members were enthused and the quality of the discussions were fantastic. The vast amount of superior posts seemed to end when pictures could not be included in the posts, less trash talk (although a certain gentleman from Greece kept us all entertained),and a vibrancy to everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 22, 2020 13:11:55 GMT -8
kevinkk said: "I wouldn't worry much about not owning a smartphone" Actually I do have one, but no internet package. I use it for photos (great camera - the butterfly photos I post here are taken with it), calculator, alarm clock, and when I connect to wifi at home I can make skype video calls to my family overseas. Adam.
|
|
|
|
Post by tv on Jul 22, 2020 20:23:15 GMT -8
I'd like to second the comment about the photo hosting. I've had dozens of photos that I have contemplated uploading at one point or another, but after the Photobucket crap, I just never bothered. Between hurdles to actually upload and the attitudes from some of the more vocal participants, it just wasn't worth the effort.
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Jul 22, 2020 22:48:52 GMT -8
I'd like to second the comment about the photo hosting. I've had dozens of photos that I have contemplated uploading at one point or another, but after the Photobucket crap, I just never bothered. Between hurdles to actually upload and the attitudes from some of the more vocal participants, it just wasn't worth the effort. I will think about a good solution for attachments. |
|
