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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 18:20:03 GMT -8
I run a 125 watt mercury vapor light in my backyard and it gets me all the moths I can stand.
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Post by joniverson on Jun 12, 2020 18:44:09 GMT -8
I run a 125 watt mercury vapor light in my backyard and it gets me all the moths I can stand.
Thanks. What is your location and how close to the woods are you? I've been getting little more than plenty of stink bugs at my lights lately along with either micro or small moths. None of the silk as of late.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 18:49:42 GMT -8
I live in southern Illinois about 30 miles from the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. It's a very rural area. Where my backyard ends a fairly large patch of woods starts. I get a variety silkmoths and catocala.
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Post by exoticimports on Jun 13, 2020 4:43:32 GMT -8
I've posted on a similar topic several times in the past year as I share my experience with differing lights and probably moth populations.
In short, I typically run a 175W MV; the forest is 30' (9m) from the deck/ MV. As the forest edge has matured over they years I can see that the reflected light (off the trees) has increased markedly and now absolutely floods the area with light. Undoubtedly, this confuses attracted moths once they enter the light zone, as it is overwhelming.
Thus, sometimes a smaller light is best. In Ecuador we ran the same 175W MV from a hilltop overlooking the jungle. Someone suggested occassionally shutting down the MV and running a BL to draw in those moths that "got confused" by the high intensity light. Furthermore, we searched the grassy area immediately surrounding the MV, and indeed did find many saturnids- particularly the largest species- that had "crash landed" on the way in to the MV. Note in one of your past posts you found a luna in the grass...my guess is a "crash land".
Also, many moths will come and leave. The common thought is that they will come to the light and stay; this is not true. I've watched many a specimen (1) come, loop around, and leave (2) land on the sheet, get hit by some fishfly or beetle, and leave and (3) hang around a while and leave. Thus luna, for example, are likely to come and go. In defense of that statement, if I put out my (now busted) kill trap with a small UV, I have often found luna in the bucket, whereas I've not found them while using the MV. This also demonstrates that if you really want to run a MV and optimize usage, you will some how have to sit out there all night with it. On a separate topic, this becomes increasingly difficult with age, the ramifications in the morning increase with years.
In my non-scientific observation, saturnid populations have markedly decreased over the last 15 years, particularly the last five.
Also, weather plays a great role, which frustrates survey. In Upstate NY last year June was cold; this year it was May, and June has waffled between very cold and very hot. This will, naturally, impact fauna behavior; for example, last year was so crappy and cold that the carp effectively skipped spawning. Similar observations with insects. This is the "Motorcycle Effect." If the motorcycles are out, it's likely to be warm enough to collect with a light; if it's too cold for motorcycles, it's probably not worth putting the lights out.
That said, motorcycles don't care about the cycles of the moon. A half moon behind partial clouds beats a 400W MV every day. Those of us who live in short season areas await the "perfect night": new moon, warm, no storms. With some luck, there might be five or six of these such days each year. Hey, you want good collecting go to Arizona or Florida.
Also (and worthy of exploring) someone at some time made the point that we used to use white sheets washed in phosphates. These would flouresce. But no more phosphates in laundry detergent, so no more flourescence. Hmmm....
I'd stick with your 175W MV, and get a bucket trap from Leroy here. Use the 175W MV when you can sit with it, then put out the bucket trap.
Chuck
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Post by joniverson on Jun 13, 2020 5:22:59 GMT -8
Chuck, thanks a lot for your input. Well, to be honest, I have been running two MV lights over the past couple of weeks. One is 175 and the other 125 W. The dual lights are not run every night, just nights where I start noticing more insects than usual at the sheets. By having the two lights, I have them oriented in such a way as to best cover the wooded areas 1/3 mi away. However, mostly I just run the single 175.
Last night I sat with the lights in the shadows caused by the light poles used to support them. Just before midnight, a Luna sort of "crash landed" as you describe onto the yard well behind, but still within illumination, of the 175. It then sort of flopped around for a while and then I was thinking I better net it because I wasn't sure if it was going to make its way over to the hanging sheet or not. This seemed to be a male and is almost a perfect specimen! It did its "crash land" around 1130 PM EST. Later, for the first time, and this time around 2 AM, another Luna! This one crash landed into the roof gutter just above the 125 MV light. I waited for a bit to see what it would do, but nothing, so got the ladder and took a peak. It was just sitting inside the gutter motionless. This specimen, seeming to be another male, was quite worn though and damaged as most of the right wing was gone. Still two Lunas in one night though is a first, but I don't know if I would have seen them at all hadn't I been monitoring a short distance away! I am taking note of the confusion you mention and I think I saw this in action last night! To help offset at least some of the confusion, I think I'll go back to the single 175. Just to note, in case I have to refer to this thread in the future, was 1/4 moon after 145 AM, clear sky, and cool, low to mid 60's, little to no wind and no recent rain.
By bucket trap, are you talking something like the Robinson trap? I already have a converted insect zapper, but without the high voltage. According to a book I have here, I can run several stiff wires attached to the bottom of the zapper with a funnel and bucket to catch anything below that. It uses a 40 watt BL bulb I believe. I've seldom used it because I notice far more brought to the sheets with the MV lights. However, it might be worth setting it up far enough away from the MV light that they wouldn't interfere with one another. Or perhaps cycling it between the MV and it. My only issue with such a bucket trap at the current time would be stink bugs! Lots of them. They love the hanging sheets, no doubt the bucket would have a good many as well.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jun 13, 2020 10:29:21 GMT -8
As many of you know, I have designed, fabricated and market a full line of traps to collect insects, especially Lepidoptera. Should you be handy with tools and power equipment. Visit Leptraps.com for ideas and designs.
Or, if you are a rather clumsy type person and would like to retain your fingers, there is an order form on the website.
I was once told I was the great Master Baiter. Ms Betty would always smile and would blurt out. "My husband is a Burger King kind of Guy. It takes two hands to handle the Whopper.
I was married to Ms Betty for over 50 years. She was never wrong. I rest my case!
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Post by joniverson on Jun 16, 2020 21:45:37 GMT -8
Thanks, I may go with a Robinson or similar at some point. However, for now, I have repurposed an old, wired closed circuit security camera I've had outside for years, but had used the cable for it for something else years ago. Never thought it would still work after 20 years, but set it up today and pointed it at the sheet. Works beautifully. Now I won't have to fight the mosquitoes when the warmer weather comes. The camera won't cover the entire area, so will still make several hourly visits throughout the evenings just to make sure I didn't miss anything, but I won't have to sit out constantly anymore.
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Post by joniverson on Jun 23, 2020 11:42:25 GMT -8
Well, some observations since I last posted. I have been sitting with the light or lights pretty much any reasonable night, so much so that I am picking up a "mosquito proof" chair (a chair surrounded by mosquito netting) because the mosquitoes are beginning to get pretty bad here. I can ward them off temporarily by wearing a coaches jacket, long pants, and gloves but this becomes hot quickly so the reason for the chair which is arriving soon. Anyway.....
Since I last posted a couple of new arrivals: promethea female and rosy maple moth. I remember what Chuck said about how the lights affect the leps. If I hadn't of been watching the 175's light curtain and surrounding area, I probably wouldn't have captured the promethea. She was sort of chaotic and near the ground and I doubt she would have clung to the sheet later. The rosy maple was on the sheet, but have to get up close to tell apart from the other smaller moths.
The next night after the promethea, I was sitting in the chair and saw another large moth approach the light. Like a dummy, I sat there waiting for it to get closer to the light and sheet, but it just flew within six feet or so, and then turned and flew away. I kick myself for not having my net handy as I could have easily netted it. However, just to confirm what Chuck was saying, this was one clear case where a large moth would have been completely missed if I hadn't of been sitting close by! Makes me wonder how effective (or ineffective) a Robinson trap would be?
Last night, I tried something different. Instead of running the two MV lights at different areas of the yard, I kept the 175 active, but brought out the de-electrified 40W bug zapper and placed it in the center of what is normally the 125 W MV sheet. Right away, I noticed a female stag beetle, which had been on the ground near the MV lights, climb up the curtain and stay close to the bug light. The same is true of a rather large insect resembling a giant termite. I know that's not it, but its wings stretch to 2.5-3" or so at rest. It wasn't coming to the MV lights either except on the ground, but was on the curtain near the zapper. So, perhaps I'll run this configuration (40W zapper and 175 MV) for a while and see how things go.
I would have thought last night would have been ideal (warm, fairly high humidity and no moon), but insects on the sheet have been declining a bit over the last several nights. It hasn't rained much over the last ten days or so, so maybe that's the reason.
Anyway, just some observations and appreciate any commentary as I continue to try and improve my set up.
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Post by Paul K on Jun 23, 2020 16:55:12 GMT -8
I am not an expert with light moth collecting, But when I went to French Guiana when I went first night collecting the guide told me wait and see, it’s gonna get better when we get to the new moon. First few night were great , sheet was full of moths. Once we got closer to new moon the moths decline and at the pick of collecting moth season numbers and variety was rather poor. Then he told, nature is unpredictable and I was glad I came few days before as I would missed all of the good species.
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Post by joniverson on Jun 28, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -8
Sometimes I don't think the light is working at all or at least losing its potency and then it proves me wrong. I've been sitting with the light just about every clear night for 4-6 hours in a mosquito proof chair. However, I am finding that it might take 2-3 hours after sunset before activity starts peaking. Greatest activity seems to be from about 11 PM- 1 AM. When I've had the larger moths show up, it has been between those times. Saturniidae seem rather infrequent here though. I've had five Lunas, two Polyphemus, three Rosy Maple, and one Promethea moth show up at the light since May 1st. Then, there is a large Saturniidae that just flies right by and doesn't visit the light at all. Most of the time, there have been either micro or Hawk moths so far. Hoping for better numbers in July. I am surrounded by sodium vapor street lights and sometimes I feel like I am competing with those as I think I can see some of the larger moths flying under them sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 18:10:27 GMT -8
“ Also, many moths will come and leave. The common thought is that they will come to the light and stay; this is not true. I've watched many a specimen (1) come, loop around, and leave (2) land on the sheet, get hit by some fishfly or beetle, and leave and (3) hang around a while and leave. Thus luna, for example, are likely to come and go. In defense of that statement, if I put out my (now busted) kill trap with a small UV, I have often found luna in the bucket, whereas I've not found them while using the MV. This also demonstrates that if you really want to run a MV and optimize usage, you will some how have to sit out there all night with it. On a separate topic, this becomes increasingly difficult with age, the ramifications in the morning increase with years.”
Yes....indeed they will.. my buddy Eric and I had a female Witch Moth visit and leave our lights for some five hours before we finally got her. Although traps are effective......and I’ve used non-kill bucket traps......I find the peace and serenity of nature all around me late at night is truly enjoyable for me. And.....when you spot that first rarity fly in and get it, it’s a thrill just as having thrown lures at fish wo catching one.....until that moment comes when a hit takes place. With musky fishing at night, it can make one wet his pants when, after hours of casting in the dark, a monster strikes at boat side. One of my most boring insect nights ended up being one of the best when a goofy polyphemus flew in. I had nothing else to do, so I grabbed it and......what do ya know? It was a gynandromorph. Yes....very few moths caught that night, but that one more than made up for it. I personally really enjoy watching stuff come in.........and.......don’t forget to walk the perimeter. Some will land some distance from the lighted landing zone.
Oops.....forgot to answer/reply to the original question. When I set up in a relatively small area, I reduce my lights to 250w. When I’m calling with openness and distance, I go with the 400w lights. I will cycle the lights as well as needed. One great collector and very successful collector uses 1000w bulbs. I can’t argue w his success, but feel that (imo) too many insects would tend to land/settle way far from the lights and I’d never know they were there. It really comes down to personal choice. I used to use 125w bulbs w high Kelvin CFLs. My first time to AZ was with these and I had TONS of stuff on my sheets during the Monsoon season. The next year in AZ, I used 250w and 400w great success. Meanwhile, that collector I mentioned earlier was doing his thing w his 1000w setup w cycling w fabulous results. It’s a fine line one walks between wanting to call from great distance and maybe not see what comes in/miss some and a lesser intensity/reach/call, but seeing more of what comes in. Temp, wind, location, moon, UV spectrum presentation, and humidity are what I focus on above all else.
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Post by joniverson on Jul 9, 2020 22:22:07 GMT -8
Yes, I'm finding that too. I wondered why I got none of the large moths when I set up around this time last year and this year I found out why: all of the large ones I've had since the last Luna in mid June have not settled down and I had to net them. I feel they would have flown away had I not been watching. Last year, I never did this and probably missed quite a few large ones. Only the Lunas seem to stick around either on the curtain or near it.
I'm not all that convinced that a trap would work. I have surplus materials here to build one at virtually no cost (it would be the Robinson type), but with what I'm seeing with the moths, I doubt the trap would catch anything other than smaller customers.
We're about to get a tropical storm passing nearby over the next couple of days I guess, so will see what effect that has on the night visitors. I know tonight was quite humid while I observed, but windy and I knew it would probably be not very good. For my area, predictions are 1-2" of rain but looks like we'll miss the wind part of it here. Perhaps a black witch or two will show up, being brought up by the storm. However, I don't think the black witch comes to lights, not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 6:25:08 GMT -8
Be advised.......BWs do indeed come to lights. 8 of the 10 I’ve caught came to lights. Humidity is a good thing even w a mild breeze/wind. Many of the collectors using traps have caught larger stuff, however, many of them get damaged in the process.
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