Paying AFTER delivery

[arizonamother]

Cash on delivery (COD) transactions died many years ago.

Somehow the buyers in this FORUM actually believe that sellers are exempt from scams and thieves?

As a seller, I don't send anything without payment in full.

When you are purchasing retail as an unknown party without a business account, in what other business is it acceptable to take away goods without payment?

Recently, after a new customer seemed apprehensive about sending full payment in advance, he said "well, I don't know you and I've never done business with you. How do I get assurance that you're not a fraud?"

I told him, "Yes, well turn that on it's head. I don't know you and I've never done business with you, either. You could be a scammer. So, why exactly should I send you this material without payment?"

I sent him photos of all the material he had ordered with his address label slightly under some of the items. He paid in full. He is an excellent customer.

And again, so far as individuals here still falling for scams-- if an advertisement doesn't have images, it's a major warning sign. If parties are selling items like, say... oh, I don't know, maybe an unusual and unlikely variety of Brahmaea pupae...shouldn't they be able to post a few images of the material they offer?


Michael in Tucson

[kevinkk]

I made a comment on a similar post, and specifically mentioned the ad for the Brahmeae pupa...I hope I spelled that right.

To me, there's no way that ad is for real for about 4 or 5 different reasons.

I've probably missed out on some good stuff because I'm suspicious at different times for any number of reasons.

It's too bad people can't all use PayPal and just stick with goods and services for new people, I want all other hobbyists

to be my friends...family, I'm not so sure about. But when it comes to money, even 10 bucks, I have expectations.

[leptraps]

As the owner of Leptraps LLC, it does not leave my shop unless it is paid for. I have customers who have purchased equipment for years. We have an understanding. However, I require full payment prior to shipment.

[wingedwishes]

Some observations:

COD is still offered by the USPS.

Some dealers with whom I have close relationships send in advance - 'credit' if you will.

Some of my customers pay me later too.

If a new purchase, seek information here for references.

I have never been scammed or stolen from unless you count the USPS in around 25 years of this hobby.

Fortunate? Yup.

[exoticimports]

We've been round and round on this every time somebody gets ripped off by a foreign dealer.

Transactions within USA are typically not "I got nothing" more likely "it wasn't the condition I expected." So there is certainly less risk. And, if need be, the buyer can (or previously, could) grab an inexpensive airline ticket to go and "visit" the seller. In USA the bug trade is small, and not a lot of money; contrast that with the collectible firearms trade which is rifle with big money fraud- there are even sellers who've done prison time for fraud, and when they get out to go right back to it!

Having been in the insect import / export business, the risk is high even with "reputable" foreign sellers. I've written on this before. There's risk of mis-identified specimens, risk in shipping damage, risk that USFWS decides to sit on, or worse seize, a shipment. And then there's outright fraud, and there's always some bug collector ignoring the risk, being stiffed, and then crying about it.

I'm in the process of downsizing, so I'm selling off stuff. In some cases (people I don't know) I wait for the money. In other cases, I ship immediately and wait for the money- and I've never been stiffed.

Thoughts to ponder: aside from fraud, there are reasons foreign sellers want the money up front: first, they've been ripped off too- I know a guy that was never paid by one of the top insect retailers. Second, they can ill afford to not be paid, even a few hundred dollars (which is nothing to most Americans); third they really need the money NOW, often living week to week.

It's Catch-22; if you have an established relationship with a consistently reliable foreign supplier, it doesn't matter when the money transfers; if you don't, they can't afford the risk (not as much as you can). So they want money up front.

As Michael indicated, there are mechanisms for establishing credibility (that the seller has what they say): ask for a photo of the material with today's internet news in the background; if it's quantity, show all of them together (not just one). Buyers can protect themselves to some extent.

FYI in my experience and observation, both Ebay and Paypal don't offer the level of protection they claim to.

Chuck