Asian hornet now in USA

[leptraps]

I am no genius, as you can tell. However, I was having difficulty with the word, decret?? Soooooooo, I Googled the word, decret. The word decret is from the old French. (I did not know there was a "New" French.) I continued my search and I found dēcrētum is the source word from Discrete. It is a Latin word. I took four years of Latin in High School. About the only thing I can read in Latin these days are the Words over the front doors of Catholic Churches. I even learned to use Latin characters.

I assumed that learning Latin would help me as an Avocational Lepidopterist. The other reason I took Latin was this girl. Her name was Karen Bulan (Not her real name.). She was a stunner. Many a young man in my high school choked a chicken or two over that beauty. Saw her at my 50 year High School Reunion. For some reason she did not look the same. Maybe it was the 200 extra pounds or so.

I am one of the few people who can understand what the Pope is saying in His Easter or Christmas messages. I can also read the writings over the doors of the Catholic Churches. (That is a handy skill!!)

I also learned that scientific names are not Latin. They are Scientific. Whatever that is??

[africaone]

May 26, 2020 2:50:33 GMT -8 leptraps said:

I am no genius, as you can tell. However, I was having difficulty with the word, decret?? Soooooooo, I Googled the word, decret. The word decret is from the old French. (I did not know there was a "New" French.) I continued my search and I found dēcrētum is the source word from Discrete. It is a Latin word. I took four years of Latin in High School. About the only thing I can read in Latin these days are the Words over the front doors of Catholic Churches. I even learned to use Latin characters.

I assumed that learning Latin would help me as an Avocational Lepidopterist. The other reason I took Latin was this girl. Her name was Karen Bulan (Not her real name.). She was a stunner. Many a young man in my high school choked a chicken or two over that beauty. Saw her at my 50 year High School Reunion. For some reason she did not look the same. Maybe it was the 200 extra pounds or so.

I am one of the few people who can understand what the Pope is saying in His Easter or Christmas messages. I can also read the writings over the doors of the Catholic Churches. (That is a handy skill!!)

I also learned that scientific names are not Latin. They are Scientific. Whatever that is??

decree, ordinance, .... I don't know which specific word to use to specify what WH uses usually
what is the link with science ? I don't understand
decree seems in dictionnary and not so far from decret, sorry for my english (I am sure your French is surely better)

[nomihoudai]

Decree and ordinance exist, but I guess what you mean are "executive orders".

This is what the sheets of paper are called where you sometimes wonder if a second person has read them through and how they were able to agree.

I am fluent in 4 languages and in written form I can understand something around 9. Before Google translate this used to be a skill.

[exoticimports]

May 26, 2020 1:42:44 GMT -8 africaone said:

may be ask to the incredible and wonderful President to make a decret to ban Asian hornet from USA 

The Asian Hornet has been banned for a long time. Unfortunately, the MURDER HORNET doesn't care about US Laws.

Control of the MURDER HORNET technically is under USDA, but USDA does something other than what they were chartered to do.

So much of it falls on USFWS.

The current president has approved a USFWS budget which is double that of the budgets approved by the previous president during his first five years; the current president has approved USFWS annual budgets each year, all of which exceed any annual USFWS budget approved by the previous president.

Aside from an Executive Order by the president (which I personally don't think this merits) it's up to USFWS and their currently satisfactory budget approved by the current president to deal with the MURDER HORNET.

Each state also has a Wildlife department. In Washington state, where the MURDER HORNET was found, the wildlife budget, controlled by a governor adversarial to the current US president, is insufficient to maintain operations, and was predicted to run out of money in March 2020. So it appears that at the state level the current governor is allowing the agency that is the defense against the MURDER HORNET to fail.

It's odd when one looks at actual facts and figures what is revealed. Now, I don't care for any of the aforementioned politicians, so I need no personal attacks. But, as we can see, the monies appropriated (or not appropriated) don't match the narrative.

Chuck

[drewalan2]

Actually, Chuck, you don't seem to be totally correct in your "facts."


1. The USFWS is NOT the agency tasked with invasive species monitoring and control, as you pointed out.
2. The USDA APHIS is the proper agency.
3. The USFWS budget for discretionary spending has NOT increased one whit since The Donald became president (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF11204.pdf). It has remained fairly constant. I have been unable to come up with budget data for APHIS under this and other presidents, but have not heard of any large budget increases to that agency.
4. The Donald has proposed HUGE budget cuts every year to both the USFWS and USDA, but Congress, led mainly by Republicans, has not provided such cuts in the final budget. As I'm sure you are aware, it is Congress, not the President, that decides the budget. The President proposes a budget, and signs it, but rarely is responsible for the final product.


I would like to know the source for your statements about the USDA (thus APHIS) dropping the ball and the USFWS being forced to take over USDA responsibilities.

I would like to know the source for your statement about the budget for the USFWS not only doubling, but increasing more than under any president in history.

If you have any source for budget information about USDA APHIS, can you please supply that? I'm still searching but so far no luck.


Thank you,
Drew

[exoticimports]

Hi Drew,

1. OK, I guess we both understand. What's the point?

2. USDA isn't what it was chartered to be. Now, only something like (and excuse me, going from memory) 4% of their budget is arguably applicable to the MURDER HORNET control.

3. I didn't cite a portion of the USFWS budget, I cited the published budget. The budget has increased. Per USFWS annual budget requests which reiterate the previous two years' budgets.

4. "The president...signs it" which means he has to, and has, approved it. He can say whatever he wants, it's acts that matter.

I don't know what percentage, or the value of, APHIS budgets. Certainly it's out there, probably in past Federal Register. Maybe on their website. Arguably, it's insufficient, but keep in mind that APHIS is now but a tiny part of USDA. USDA has a massive budget..."somebody" could just move some of that money to APHIS.

Chuck

[Adam Cotton]

Errrmmm ... how many people in the US has this hornet actually murdered?

Adam.

[leptraps]

May 16, 2020 18:37:27 GMT -8 kevinkk said:

Apparently these wasps also cause stupidity, and insanity, or is it just more of the same old thing?

I watched a local news segment this morning and someone in Washington State torched and completely
destroyed a bunch of honeybee hives kept by a senior beekeeping society. These beekeepers were clearly emotionally devastated.
The assumption was that wasp fear was the catalyst.

I've got a suggestion- don't call them "Murder Hornets" I have watched several documentary shows on the Asian hornet, and never once are they called "murder hornets".

Another fear fiasco perpetrated by the media,liberal and conservative both. Please don't tell me it was a slow news day. There is no such thing
anymore.

This is just my considered opinion. You get what you pay for when you deal directly with the Chinese. They consider us White Anglosaxsons and we are really stupid. A US Museum purchase 480+ Cornell Drawers from China. The were exact duplicates of a BioQuip Cornell Drawer. These drawers from China were slightly out of Square and could be difficult to open. The single "label holder with Pull" were mounted out of line and off center.

The museum wanted them replaced. However, no one in China(?) would answer the phone.

[drewalan2]

Chuck,


You made some pretty bold claims, and make reference to "actual facts and figures." I found what you said interesting and looked into it further. I cannot find any information anywhere that backs up your statements. In fact, what I can find about your various statements contradicts what you stated.

While USFWS budgets may have increased a bit with time, they have not doubled. Yes, they have increased a bit, mainly keeping up with inflation, but to compare any current budget with any during the previous administration, is misleading. The previous administration inherited one of the greatest recessions in our history, so of course budgets were not increased, and indeed decreased, during his first few years. But, that changed during his latter years, when the economy picked up steam, and continued during the current administration. HOWEVER, the current administration did not ask for increases in the USFWS budget. Instead, a cut of 2.7% across the board was requested, and denied by Congress. Thus, the small increase they got was forced on the current administration. I don't think the President should get credit for signing something that was forced on him, do you?

I could find no information, nor did any queries to contacts in the USDA Aphis program provide any, to suggest that they are not currently still working very hard to study and stop invasive species. Thus, as far as I can tell, they are not "doing something they are not chartered to do" instead of this. What is the thing they are doing?

I could find no information that the USFWS is taking up the fight against invasive species in place of the USDA (APHIS).


Can you provide any information, links to websites, published documents, etc. that gives any facts that agree with anything you said about anything? I am not trying to pick at you; I really am interested to know.


Thanks,
Drew

[exoticimports]

"Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" -- Arthur James Balfour, 1st Earl of Balfour


Good morning Drew,

I must admit some disappointment, since you again indicated that your research found fault in my figures (quite possible) yet failed to cite any such evidence.

My USFWS data came from a variety of sources found via a search engine. Some was direct from USFWS and some other government sources, admittedly (yet not surprisingly) not all congruent. Probably the best source would be Federal Register, which I did not employ.

That the previous (or any) presidential regime faced purported economic issues supposedly inherited is immaterial to the data itself. If the argument / excuses are correct, there may well be a valid reason there; however, it doesn't change a simple data set. It doesn't change the fact that, as you cite "budgets were not increased, and indeed decreased". It is what it is, and so far as I know, my statements as I understood the data stand true.

As far as I'm concerned the president does get credit for signing something. The buck stops at the top. The president can sign budgets/ laws, or can refuse them for a redo. Just like in a company- leadership us ultimately responsible for results.

From Wikipedia: "Early in its history, the economy of the United States was largely agrarian. Officials in the federal government had long sought new and improved varieties of seeds, plants and animals for import into the United States." That's was the charter for USDA in concept when presented in 1837, which continued at the time of inception in 1862. For 2020, 65% of USDA budget has nothing to do with forestry, conservation, exotic pests, farming, etc. (USDA FY 2020 Budget Summary.)

So who IS fighting invasive species? APHIS people I talk to tell me they can't come close to covering everything they need. That is, of course, anecdotal. At the broad end of the spectrum, a google search for "USFWS Invasive Species" returns 336,000 hits, and "APHIS Invasive Species" only 298,000. Though perhaps only indicative, this clearly indicates that USFWS has taken up the fight against invasive species. In place of USDA? Clearly, though again anecdotally, it's USFWS that puts up the signs to clean your boat and fish locker, that attends events to talk to the public. I presume that there is a division of responsibility; clearly there is overlap (I would call it redundancy) particularly when a newsworthy event happens since both USFWS and APHIS clothing is in evidence. So, at least at the generic public level, it's pretty clear that USFWS has both more media exposure as well as expending more manpower in the fight against invasive species.

Since this is not a professional paper, I have cited sources, and named others available, but I'm not going to provide documents and links that are readily available to everyone. Rather, I leave it to those who are interested in the topic to do their own research- as it may well reveal data and aspects that conflict with those points I presented- and we should always be playing "devils advocate".

One thing we must, and researchers and reporters, be aware of and diligent about is introducing obfuscating arguments and twisted sound bites.

For example, I cited "budgets." You cited "discretionary budgets." I don't mean to pick on you, Drew, but this is important to the sanctity of a discussion. Not everyone recognizes the difference, so in their mind it defaults to "budgets" and an discussion on discretionary budgets, particularly alternative arguments and data, then negates any real data/ information concerning previously presented discussions on "budgets". This ploy is used by politicians and media to surreptitiously obfuscate, which is a horrible thing to do- but it works. As researchers, we need to be careful not to obfuscate unintentionally. Now, there may well be incredible significance behind the "discretionary budgets"- it may better define a situation, for example. But if one ever so slightly changes or adds to a discussion point (budgets vs. discretionary budgets) one should, for the sake of transparency as well as detail, make it very clear that attention is being somewhat redirected, and why it's important.

A second action which impartial arguments must avoid is twisting another's statements to fit an alternative. For example, I never said that APHIS "are not currently working very hard". The unschooled reader will take this as fact without bothering to verify if the statement was indeed true, thus creating a false narrative, and in their minds, a false truth. While certainly, in this case, it's a matter of perspective being presented as understanding, it is too often used to obfuscate, refute, and confuse the reader (with, again, great success by politicians.)

Unfortunately, humans find it easier to live in black and white. Thus, they accept even the most idiotic and twisted presentation, so long as it fits the narrative they want. "Trust, but verify" said Ronald Reagan. Unfortunately, nobody today does the "verify" part. It is our responsibility as researchers and presenters to do both. We may not always be correct, but we don't need to make things worse.


Chuck

[exoticimports]

May 26, 2020 8:31:49 GMT -8 Adam Cotton said:

Errrmmm ... how many people in the US has this hornet actually murdered?

Adam.

"My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts." - Roy S. Durstine


Sensationalism drives readership, readership is money. If you want to know why something happens, follow the money.

[drewalan2]

Yeah, that's what I thought....

[kevinkk]

That quote is very funny. I'm sure murder is a human invention, animals just do what they do. I've watched the documentaries about
monkeys, and other animals, but I don't think it could be called murder, although it might be an interesting topic.
Back to that slow news day...

[exoticimports]

First Murder Hornet nest in USA (Washington state) found and destroyed

nypost.com/2020/10/23/first-murder-hornet-nest-in-us-found-in-washington/

[kevinkk]

Oct 25, 2020 15:13:16 GMT -8 exoticimports said:

First Murder Hornet nest in USA (Washington state) found and destroyed

nypost.com/2020/10/23/first-murder-hornet-nest-in-us-found-in-washington/

That's local news for us, even as far south as the central Oregon coast, I read the link, but didn't watch the video, originally they
were talking about cutting the whole tree down.

Maybe they got some advice from the guys in Japan I've watched documentaries about, some of them are really dedicated to
killing the hornets. Using the radio/gps tracking on them was a good idea though, a little easier than the ribbons I saw used
in the tv show.

I still find the name "murder hornet" amusing, presumably  a product of our media, I don't recall anyone in the documentaries calling 
them that.