Tropical Butterfly Breeders Need Our Help

[achillides]

Hi there over the Atlantic!

Unfortunately, I have not been so active in my hobby of breeding butterflies in recent years.
As life plays, job, family ...

I found the following action a great thing! Sure happy about any help.

www.gofundme.com/f/save-our-tropical-butterfly-farmers

Stay all healthy!
Matt

[achillides]

Just 800 *shock* Come on! I remember some spent thousands of bugs for an old, death, dried butterfly...

There are now also many butterfly houses in North America! The best I visited is in Phoenix by the way ...!

Imagine you could have seen a blue morpho in a butterfly house like today as a child? I never forget when I saw the first time blue morpho or green, black Birdwing flying in front of me.

The Butterfly houses are great for Kids! AND for the parents, as everywhere in the USA, there are only butterflies from South America (Costa Rica). But what is not, can still become!
May Birdwing Special like in Utrecht. Sure there are ideas...

[nomihoudai]

I was actually amazed that people send 800 bucks to an unknown person on the internet. Think about that for a moment.

[achillides]

Oh oh, OMG, too much FOX News! ✌🏻
I'm out!

Did you read the text? I don't think they're an unknown persons?!

Nonetheless, That is a main reason why I prefer never write anything in forums. 🙈

... I'm sorry.

[exoticimports]

So an anchillides shows up without bothering to introduce himself. First post is a sales pitch, third is an attack on an established member and contributor, with some misdirection to a news agency thrown in.

Go away.

BTW the gofundme was started by a Marketing Manager. And there is no mention of how much of the donations goes to the poor foreign butterfly farmers. My guess is none- it goes to the Stratford butterfly zoo. Typical low-quality marketing aimed at the low intelligence bleeding hearts. Shameful.

[achillides]

WOW,. Think don't have to comment on that. Every normal person reading this thinks its part.. 😆

I'm out, definitely ... 😅

[achillides]

Stopp!
Not all of America is Trumpland. I didn't want to say that! Even if it is sad how it harms the country and supporters are too lazy or uneducated to simply inform themselves objectively.

But you don't have to go too far for that, my Danish friend. 😉

Unfortunately, it is a worldwide phenomenon. I always try to do that with humor. There is no other way to endure it! 🙈

Over and out...

[achillides]

I'm definitely a member for 15 years or so. The account was set to zero. Why I don't know (new software ?!).
Why more and more people have left this forum has been well proven. And any more comment is unnecessary.

[jshuey]

May 4, 2020 23:25:44 GMT -8 skandinavisk said:

May 3, 2020 19:20:58 GMT -8 achillides said:

WOW,. Think don't have to comment on that. Every normal person reading this thinks its part.. 😆

I'm out, definitely ... 😅

Sooo much negativity! Go away??? That command though! Yes, it is discouraging being on this forum. Everything and everybody is conspiracy theories, 24/7. No fact checks here either, just bullying rants. Welcome to Trumpland on insectnet!

Jan

I prefer to think that people are just ..., sorry, I don't even know what they are thinking half the time. I go back to my quetion at insectnet.proboards.com/thread/8640/why-insect-collectors-narcissistic-crybabies, something about this forum turns lepidopterists into states approaching cynical-narcissists... I don't get it.

j

[exoticimports]

May 5, 2020 10:23:11 GMT -8 jshuey said:

May 4, 2020 23:25:44 GMT -8 skandinavisk said:

Sooo much negativity! Go away??? That command though! Yes, it is discouraging being on this forum. Everything and everybody is conspiracy theories, 24/7. No fact checks here either, just bullying rants. Welcome to Trumpland on insectnet!

Jan

I prefer to think that people are just ..., sorry, I don't even know what they are thinking half the time. I go back to my quetion at insectnet.proboards.com/thread/8640/why-insect-collectors-narcissistic-crybabies, something about this forum turns lepidopterists into states approaching cynical-narcissists... I don't get it.

j

I dunno John, there's only one person on this forum that truly meets the criteria as a narcissist. I think it's an oft over-used and inappropriately used word, often to misdirect.

Paul stated (was it here and gone, or another thread?) something about ripoff scams and high-paid executives at supposedly benevolent organizations. And, while it's a great topic for another thread so I'll keep it short, sadly it's too often the case: United Way, CITES, NRA, Wounded Warrior even. Foundations of good that become nothing but revenue for fat cats.

But in this case, the original post led us to believe that donors were going to be helping rural butterfly farmers. Hey, I'm all for helping rural butterfly farmers- I've donated hundreds of hours to doing just that, in country. Sending money (with no bugs in return), leaving nets and gear behind, even a 40 page business analysis for DNR.

But I'm also a marketing expert, and suspicious. So I looked at the GoFme page, and there are what we call red flags for investors. First, the person that started the GoFme isn't a rural farmer (note: red flag means something to note, not a conviction); second, the starter is a Marketing Manager...not an environmentalist, a marketing person. And marketing people market to raise money for an organization. In this case, the organization isn't regional EconDev, or DNR, or any other manner of NGO but a butterfly house. Red flag number three is that there are indeed butterfly suppliers listed, but there is no mention of how the donations will get to them, or what percentage will reach the poor rural farmers.

When you roll it all together what you have is a certainty that money raised will go directly to the butterfly house. Putting the pieces together, it's pretty safe to assume that "somebody" thought that getting money to send some along to rural farmers (which is a normal course of business) would be a good thing to do.

But they (the marketing manager), assuming she's well intentioned, "forgot" to mention that the butterfly house will be using that money for expenses- that's the long and the short of it. And if it wasn't "forgotten" but by design, well that meets the legal criteria for fraud. Personally, I don't think fraud can be proven, but I believe the GoFme appeal to be dishonest by omission.


Beyond that, the OP's first post is to introduce us to an appeal for money that is at best misleading, at worst fraud. When nomihoudai pointed out that $800 is a lot to send to someone unknown, OP (who is truly, even now, an unkown!) attacked him. That is inappropriate- and, not surprising (since I've dealt with this before) typical with somewhat (or fully) shady financial appeals. Of course, OP isn't satisfied, and has to leverage "conspiracy theories", while attacking a media agency and a voting bloc. Good gosh.

Perhaps I was abrupt in my decorum. I really don't think I saved anyone on THIS website from wasting money. So if I have offended sensibilities, I apologize. At the same time, we certainly don't need a new person with no revealed identity, slinging attacks and slander while at the same time promoting a questionable financial angle.

Chuck

[achillides]

Crazy... But all was said:

Why more and more people have left this forum has been well proven. And any more comment is unnecessary.

[kevinkk]

Ok,

I'll step into this, if only to point out that I don't think anyone has left this forum, maybe, maybe not. A lot of topics get discussed,

some are superfluous, some are amusing, some aren't about insects at all.

I did not look at the link, or the gofundme page, I just read the comments.

My personal experience with gofundme, is that it's problematic, and anything can be misused or misrepresented. That's just my

opinion. Donating is a personal choice, I donate to Insectnet, not a lot, but it's more than I give Wikipedia, or a political campaign.

The current situation has thrown normality out the window, and hopefully anyone that needs support gets it.

The Insectnet site changed in 2018 sometime in the spring, the old provider was replaced, I do miss infosniper, but I can upload pictures

easier now.

[achillides]

Hi Kevin,
Thanks. But I think if you follow the posts correctly. It is no longer a matter of fact. Even if I personally find that a shame. But that happens often. People try to do something or help. And then a frustrated querolant comes along and has nothing to do better with his time. Here it just shows me that someone can use google a little but can't use his brain. But that's my personal opinion and if you read my posts before correctly I don't normally get that personal. Everyone should form their own opinion about this

It's about the way.
John wasn't that wrong with his guess. But the headline doesn't fit this topic.

[leptraps]

I have been on Insectnet for a few years. I remember when Clark got it started. I liked the "Auction", and "I need help" topics on the forum back then.

There was only one individual that I ever said anything negative about, and then only after he attacked a true gentleman and a scholar. Then He disappeared from the Insectnet. I do miss his vast knowledge.

I report my field activities, what I find and what I learn. I try to explain how I do things and to help others. I try to help where help is needed.

Many of you have contacted me off site to ask question or to obtain my help.

I also own Leptraps. I have kept my business off Insectnet. I donate a buck or two when things get tight.

I think I may be the oldest Lepidopterists on Insectnet at the age of 75. And besides, I have a great sense of humor and a lot of charm.

And on a personal note. As many of you know, I am a Widow. I had a date last night with a 38 year old lady.

I still got it!!!!

[Adam Cotton]

Leroy,


We all appreciate your input, both about insects and most of your non-entomological comments.

I hope you maintained 'social distancing' in these virus ridden times.

Adam.

[achillides]

You are killing me! 😃😃😃
I just agree with everything ...

Only one! Leroy, you're not a member. YOU ARE insectnet! 👍🏻😆

[kevinkk]

I enjoy reading Leptraps posts, it's from a different thread, but I have to ask what is a "compactor" and how is it used for an insect purpose,

other than what I am picturing...

On this other topic, we all have opinions that may or may not be popular, and making generalizations about someone isn't what anyone wants to

hear, I have a lot of pet peeves about people, and could easily make generalizations based on just a few written lines.

But those are personal opinions and not exactly scientific, are they?

[Adam Cotton]

A compactor is a trolley system which reduces space in museum collections. Each row of cabinets is basically sitting on a wheeled base and everything can be moved together instead of having walkways between the rows. When someone needs to see specimens in a particular row all the rows of cabinets on one side are moved back to make a walkway between the cabinets containing the drawers the researcher wants to see.

At a guess a compactor system can save at least one third of the floor space, allowing many more rows of cabinets to be added to the collection.

Adam.

[achillides]

If it now turns now into an *ask Adam thread*. HAPPY END! 👍🏻😃

I have one! May someone can help easily.

Is it me allowed to send pupae to Canada? To private person, without import permit, like in Europe. Or it's law like in US?

[Paul K]

May 7, 2020 12:13:51 GMT -8 achillides said:

If it now turns now into an *ask Adam thread*. HAPPY END! 👍🏻😃

I have one! May someone can help easily.

Is it me allowed to send pupae to Canada? To private person, without import permit, like in Europe. Or it's law like in US?

For live insects permit is required and very hard to get.
Dry dead insects don’t need any permit to import to Canada, unless it is CITES species. In this case export permit from country of origin must accompanied with specimen.

Hope this help
Paul

[leptraps]

The design and manufacturing of Compactors began in 1983. The Interior Steel Equipment Company of Cleveland, Ohio, at a "request for Quote" from The Carnegie Museum of Pissbugh, PA. (I am a life long Cleveland fan) The "Compactor" concept came from a person who was not an engineer. He was actually a draftsman. Then I became the guy who took the engineering drawings and produced a compactor. Once I had it four sections together, we made a series of adjustments. I was not a fan of the open faced drawer racks.

Once fabricated, painted and delivered.I held my breath. I was in and out of the Carnegie Museum several times a week. When the USNM drawers were loaded into the compactor, it would not seal tightly. The trucks would not align when loaded. I shimmed and added untold number of spacers as well as 80+ trips from Cleveland to Pissburgh. The museum finally signed off. I left ISEC and took a job in Florida. I have never been back to the Carnegie Museum for a visit.

Did the Holland Collection ever get put into the Compactor. And if it did, what happened to the Holland cabinets with the glass doors?

[kevinkk]

Thank you Adam and Leptraps, for your explaination  of the compactor. I did do a google search for "museum compactor"

and saw some amazing pictures.

I'm assuming it is more of a research and acquisition tool, rather than something for public display.

For Achillides, permits are required for livestock, even between states here in the USA, many people ignore those

requirements and in the case of state to state, simply ship livestock as you might ship anything else. What is allowed,

are species native to the respective state, if I've read my rules properly.

I'm not going to admit to, or endorse circumventing any regulations, but theoretically, if I wanted to ship  livestock

to  the UK, or Canada, I would simply list the contents as something innocuous and with little value.

Being here in the USA, we miss out on a lot of tropical  butterfly livestock because of the permit requirements.

[achillides]

I know the American law. Years ago I asked the US Wildlife Service for. As Kevin posted, private exchange not possible.

The problem here is more about the handling of the law. In the USA you need a gerneral import permit for alive invertebrate. No matter if Cites or not. Cites you need both. May export if unprotected is no problem.

This does not apply in Europe, UK. It depends case to case. There is no basic import permit. The import of alive invertebrate is also not prohibited for private generally. You only need paper for cites animals. I imported pupae and cocoons, with and without cites. Had no problems. 55 Euro veterinary fee. And cites pupae 28 Euro (quantity doesn't matter) for import cites each main species. You have to order import cites in advance with the export cites of the country.
Sorry for my bad English. May sounds more complicated as it finally is.

So quick and dirty.
Thanks Paul, so Canada is same law like USA

[achillides]

Does anyone know the current annual fee for import permit live insects in USA or Canada, non commercial use.
May it's not so bad and less spectacular...

I clicked through the whole page fws.gov. And finally it shows me an email address. Great! 💩🙈😅