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Post by joachim on Apr 21, 2020 7:39:09 GMT -8
and other nice things. This is not a recommendation just question wether this is really true
Joachim
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 21, 2020 8:19:34 GMT -8
It probably is.
This seller also has 2 males and a female of Bhutanitis ludlowi listed, the male on auction is about to end as I write.
I really don't recommend anyone try to buy the P. homerus as it's not possible they can have CITES papers on appendix I.
Adam.
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Post by joachim on Apr 21, 2020 8:40:20 GMT -8
I doubt wether he really has these species, maybe stolen from a museum
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Post by joachim on Apr 21, 2020 8:45:47 GMT -8
And, I was told that some cites from russian dealers are not valid in the EU: is that true?
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Apr 21, 2020 8:51:31 GMT -8
I knew an older Lepidopterists who had a nice series of 8 or 9 specimens, male and female. He always claimed he collected them during WW2.
When he past away in 1972(??) his collection supposedly went to the Carnegie Museum.
I was an employee by the Interior Steel Equipment Co. In the mid-1980's. We built and installed their compactor. Long after the compactor was operational, I visited the museum to re-align the compactor and update software. I looked through the Papilio drawers. There were several specimens of Papilio homerus. All collected in the early 1920's.
I am sure somebody has them. I did not ask anyone at the museum if they had specimens.
I have seen them in the wild. Did not collect any nor do I have any.
It is illegal to buy, trade or sell specimens of Papilio homerus.
I do not believe Oliver or Adam would permit someone to advertise the sale or trade of Papilio homerus on Insectnet.
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Post by Paul K on Apr 21, 2020 9:08:02 GMT -8
It probably is. This seller also has 2 males and a female of Bhutanitis ludlowi listed, the male on auction is about to end as I write. I really don't recommend anyone try to buy the P. homerus as it's not possible they can have CITES papers on appendix I. Adam. Unless one resides in Russian Federation and has a deep wallet 😉 |
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Post by joachim on Apr 21, 2020 9:29:27 GMT -8
well, instead of trying to buy any, I would buy a new car
of all his specimens are very high prices.
I have been in Jamaica in the early 80´s and I collected 2 homerus. We the met an Jamaician who had some in his house. So we bought, I think 2 or 3 in middle quality.
We exchanged them for something i do not remember. Our Jamaician friend is now in Chicago and there are no people I believe collecting the homerus.
Trading and keeping them is rather dangerous.
The guy told me he has cites for the chimaera, collected in 2018. MMmhhhh...... I know in Syria you get a pasaport for 50 $.
Joachim
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Post by foxxdoc on Apr 21, 2020 9:37:48 GMT -8
Is there any data with the specimens ?
Are they from an old collection. ?
I have some very old specimens that could not be sold legally. Don 't we all ?
There is always somebody who will buy the ivory or tiger skins or rhino horns. However these type of sellers don't advertise in public venues; would they ? you would think it would be very secretive.
TOM |
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Post by foxxdoc on Apr 21, 2020 9:52:21 GMT -8
I finally viewed the site. He has a large number of unusual specimens. I doubt stolen; many of the leps are still unmounted. not typical of something from a collection. Does anyone know the seller ? e bay indicates he is a repeat seller. Perhaps he is a broker for collectors who have hard to move leps. ?
TOM |
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Post by Paul K on Apr 21, 2020 9:52:47 GMT -8
Joachim
Who ever will buy those specimens already has few new cars, well setup security and paid authorities behind his back.
No worries.
Cheers
Paul
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Post by joachim on Apr 21, 2020 10:32:11 GMT -8
Haha Paul, you are rught. The joke is: Somebody goes into a shop where Rolls Royce cars are offered. He asked a seller: How much is this ? answer: Too expensive for you if you ask for a price.
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Post by exoticimports on Apr 22, 2020 10:10:40 GMT -8
Joachim Who ever will buy those specimens already has few new cars, well setup security and paid authorities behind his back. No worries. Cheers Paul Funny as it is, you are right. But what's the difference between paying a government official to turn a blind eye, and having the political connections and pay arbitrary fees to achieve the same results? CITES I specimens may cross international boundaries, WITH THE RIGHT PAPERWORK. How that paperwork requirement is satisfied may depend on money. Big deal. Somebody's gotta get paid to do nothing. But this "OMG it's totally illegal!" mania has to stop. If Bill Gates wants it, he can get it legally. The only question is if YOU can afford to procure legally (should you want it.) I'm sure my state senator can push to get the CITES and USFWS paperwork approved, or even change the law for a one-off import; but it's $5000 to even sit with him. But some some, who cares about cost? Chuck |
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Apr 22, 2020 19:30:15 GMT -8
We live in a "Must Have World". However, regardless of the cost. I have some moral values that guide my life. Owning anything that is illegal, is not me. Papilio homerus is on the very edge of extinction. Trading/Purchasing/Selling specimens of threaten or endangered species is illegal. I once had specimen of Heraclides aristodemus ponceanus that I collected on Key Largo. I kept a single pair and I gave all of the rest of them to the Carnegie Museum.
I once collected specimens of Eumaeus atala prior to them being placed on an endangered list. People just looked in the wrong places.
However, I only collect North American species. And I will never run out of moths to collect.
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Post by kevinkk on Apr 22, 2020 19:42:07 GMT -8
Another interesting topic, I looked at the guy's Ebay page, also interesting, and expensive. There is always someone who'll buy what's for sale, and that's one reason things are extinct or endangered, it is a selfish pursuit, like having a stolen painting. |
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Post by exoticimports on Apr 23, 2020 3:12:07 GMT -8
Another interesting topic, I looked at the guy's Ebay page, also interesting, and expensive. There is always someone who'll buy what's for sale, and that's one reason things are extinct or endangered, it is a selfish pursuit, like having a stolen painting. Rubbish. How else to say it? That's the story everyone is told, and most people believe it. It would be possible to eliminate a population of rare, near extinction insects. But then, one must wonder why they are so near extinction to begin with. Aside from that, collectors are not able to eliminate a population. In Butterflies of Solomon Islands, author John Tennent even says that about O victoriae, debunking the CITES position about the species being endangered, going so far as to say that arming the populace with flyswatters and instructions to kill would not eliminate the population. The demand on natural populations by collectors is highly unlikely to damage, much less destroy, a population. In fact, quite the opposite- demand generates captive breeding programs, which creates a surplus. It also creates interest (above the underground level) thus bringing attention to the species. In EVERY case of endangerment, the cause isn't collectors- it's non-collectors. Number 1 is clearing land for agriculture; #2 is human population pressure, #3 is pollution, and #4 is commercial non-collector demand for the animal product. Pick one- Homerus, Alexandrae, Black Rhinos, pangolins, Yangtzee River Dolphins, Belonesox belizanus, etc. Not a one endangered by scientific specimen collectors. If we, as a species (and as Americans) truly gave a ###, we'd send all the CITES people and USFWS staff to PNG, to Africa, to the Amazon, to China armed to the teeth and tell them to stop logging, stop burning forests, and stop killing wildlife for pedestrian purposes. Otherwise, it's just a bad joke. Chuck |
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