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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 31, 2020 10:44:36 GMT -8
THANK YOU sincerely Billg. for taking the time to look over these Cats for me. Your longtime experience and thoroughness in the details (of observation) deserves every respect !
I APPRECIATE and ALWAYS welcome your thoughts on these Bill...
Once again, sending along a BIG "THANK YOU" for taking the time and effort in posting that wonderful informative comparison of the junctura/unijuga/parta/meiskei complex of salmon colored species. I'm sure many others will benefit !
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Post by rayrard on Aug 31, 2020 11:04:44 GMT -8
THANK YOU very much indeed rayrard for your species confirmations of my posted photo's ! My sincere respect for being mentored by Larry Gall himself. You have mentioned in the past that you have collected Catocala with him numerous times so, it seems you are THE go to guy for Catocala on this forum. I will post a few more pic's of some questionable specimens so, hopefully your well rounded knowledge/experience of these moths will assist with these tough ones (for me) that I have. I met Larry Gall twice. Very pleasant and helpful in every way. Met him in the early 1990's in Chicago whilst working at Field Museum as a Technical Assistant (Div. of Insects). He visited our Division to look over the Hermann Strecker (types) of Catocala. Within a year or so a printed bulletin of his confirmations/investigation was printed. I have a copy somewhere on my book shelves. Also, met him a second time at a big Lep. Soc. meeting in Eureka Ill. but, I've forgotten what year that was. I still make errors, especially from pictures of live specimens on iNaturalist. Bob Borth is a colleague of Larry's and me and him are the main Catocala people on iNat. I have issues with subnata vs neogama, determining semirelicta, and retecta/luctuosa. Also the orange species in the west and mountains are tough.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 31, 2020 11:09:54 GMT -8
The next 3 photo's I post are three rather distinct looking (black) Catocala. Now, there are truly some distinct black species one really cannot mistake for anything else. However, there are some "puzzlers" like these which I cannot quite place an accurate determination on. Anyone with any ideas or proposals or just plain certainty; please reply... Photo A: This one has the unmistakable dark fringe at the outer edges of the hind wings. My best idea here is Catocala residua ? Photo A: 100% residua with black fringe Photo B: the unmarked angusi form... insolabilis is more mottled and ulalume has a white fringe Photo C: possibly a very heavily marked flebilis. Also close to a typical dark angusi, but the reniform is clearly brown and large while angusi has a smaller gray reniform. It does look larger than typical flebilis from comparison with the palaeogama? to the left
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Post by trehopr1 on Sept 1, 2020 22:01:22 GMT -8
One of the more curious and unusual Catocala specimens which I have picked up over the years is in the group photo posted below. It is the one on the right hand side of my C. paleogama "typicals". I believe this is one of the "forms" of Catocala paleogama. *If I should be wrong about this however, then please let me know. The evening that I captured this specimen (at Merc.Vap.Light); I also collected up over 20 other paleogama and NONE of the others looked anything like this ! Just thought other enthusiasts would like to see a "one-off" which is quite unlike the typical examples one is likely to come across of this moth species. If anyone can provide a name for this "form" I would most certainly appreciate it !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 22:25:00 GMT -8
That’s form ‘phalanga’ and is indeed a prize. Nice catch........only caught one like it in my life.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Sept 2, 2020 4:38:31 GMT -8
I now have six(6) Bait Traps in the Mantua Wetlands and four(4) in the Grand River WA. I also have four(4) Kill Type Bait Traps in the Killdeer WA South of Sandusky, Ohio. The list below were collected in the Grand River WA and Mantua Wetlands.
Catocala ultronia Catocala grynea Catocala blandula Catocala innubens Catocala amica Catocals mira Catocala judith (Very worn) Catocala neogama Catocala insolabilis Catocala piatrix Catocala palaeogama Catocala ilia Catocala junctura Catocala antinympha Catocala relicta (Two different color forms)
I have been using Apples & Peachs as Bait. All my Bait Traps are the Slotted Pan Type.
The Kill Type Bait Traps I have set out in the Killdeer WA, I use only Apples and sugar for bait.
I had a real surprise in one of my Bait Traps in the Killdeer WA. A Black Witch (Ascalapha odorata). It was wing worn but intact. I have two specimens in my collection from Ohio. 1962 and 1971. Both were collected while Baiting for Catocala. I did not have Bait Traps until 1974.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 4:58:40 GMT -8
Another form to watch for that’s a lot more common than phalanga is annida. form....annida maybe a darker form of annida.......not sure
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Post by trehopr1 on Sept 2, 2020 10:18:33 GMT -8
Thank You Billg for the prompt reply ! Wow, really happy to hear I truly picked up something unique with that "phalanga" form of C. paleogama.
Thanks also, for posting those pic's of the "annida" form. I'm certain I have a few of those; it's so much whiter/lighter than the typical form. The other photo looks to me like a more "melanic" paleogama (individual) but, whether its a darker "annida" form I cannot say...
Have you Bill ever read or heard of what causes these very different looking forms within a species. Is it genetics, environment, food source or something else?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 13:39:33 GMT -8
I have not. Due to the relative regular sporadic occurrence of these forms, my best guess would be genetic.......probably recessive genes being able to be expressed phenotypically. Just a guess though. Environmental oddities usually are much less frequent, if not actually one of a kind. I think if it were food, such forms would be far more common and not so geographically spread out as they are. I caught my phalanga in far southern IL, my buddy caught one in western TN, and you, I think, caught yours in northern IL. A unique foodplant to all those three regions seems unlikely. Now I had better stop hypothesizing as I’m sure to error somehow. If you ever find out, plz tell all......I’d love to know.
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Post by rayrard on Sept 2, 2020 14:06:20 GMT -8
I would like to see the most unusual Catocala variations you've collected or seen. There must be some very rare or one-off variations out there. I always wonder if there are colored species that have black hindwings, or vice versa. Or an all-black relicta? Or extra large or small versions of species. Or what about species way out of range or of questionable taxonomic position.
I have collected a phalanga form before but I also have an all black cerogama.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 14:36:49 GMT -8
Love to see your all black cerogama. I picked out a few w unique markings including forms ruperti and bunkeri. Some have tons of yellow and some have a very thin yellow HW band. That’s why I love large series of species.....the variation, mild or drastic. I did catch a coccinata w dark gray/black FWs a few years ago. Maybe I’ll post it up later on. Show me/us some of your goodies.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 20:34:42 GMT -8
A few cool ilias.... coccinatas.......w melanic form
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Post by rayrard on Sept 2, 2020 22:51:02 GMT -8
I love the Florida coccinata with the broken or faint HW band.
We don't see some of the super-rare Catocala posted about much, like myristica, atocala, herodias, miranda, orba, or lincolana. Seems most of the Catocala fans live in the northern tier states or in the Appalachians.
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Post by bobw on Sept 3, 2020 0:12:13 GMT -8
In all the posts from rayrard all I see is a grey no entry sign.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 3:30:46 GMT -8
That dark coccinata resembles the FL one w a broken HW band, but was caught in northern IL.
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