|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 20, 2018 10:35:01 GMT -8
Dear forum users, next year between Februari and March I will spend 1.5 month time in Cambodia (Siem Reap) and will be looking for insects. My question is however; what are the laws regarding the collection of dead material from this country? Can I take it back to the Netherlands without too much legal troubles? It was hard for me to find any information about this. PS: Tips about what to look for are also welcome although the main question I am asking here is about legislation, it's also good to be aware of any unique insects from the region  my main interest is moths. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Nov 20, 2018 11:32:33 GMT -8
I'm assuming you will be traveling via Bangkok/Thailand so you should not have the trouble to export specimens. Cambodian/Thai border is rather easy to pass for Europeans and you don't need export permit leaving Thailand at airport.
As for actual collecting in Cambodia I am not sure but I don't think anyone cares except if you would try to collect in protected areas and come across rangers.
|
|
|
|
Post by eurytides on Nov 20, 2018 12:34:35 GMT -8
Hi Bart. I don't have any information about Cambodia unfortunately, but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum. I have watched many of your insect videos on Youtube. Best of luck collecting.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Nov 20, 2018 13:45:32 GMT -8
Cambodia is a tough country, lots of petty crime and shake downs. Watch your back and be prepared to be questioned by cops and authorities looking for money.
Most of Siam reap area is logged out. That said it is tropical so there are always insects.
Locals put out lighted traps, bugs fall into water. It’s intended target is grasshoppers but you may want to find friendly locals that will put aside moths for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by 18duroe on Nov 20, 2018 19:26:44 GMT -8
I have visited Cambodia twice (both times Siem Reap) and it is an incredible place for insects. Be careful because land mines are everywhere and if you go to the right areas you will see signs warning of land mines. Most people visiting Cambodia for insects(photographers) visit Angkor wat since it is cleared of land mines, but rest assured you will attract the attention of locals as well as guards (not to mention the area is a National park I think). Your best option is to find insects in the villages, you will see bug lights and sheets in open fields around the city but those mostly attract grasshoppers and almost no moths. My best collecting in Cambodia was when I visited a village and took my net out, the local children (a few around my age) guided me directly to the best pudding spots they had seen. I remember I came across a bush full of these day flying wasp mimics (unsure of the species).
Cambodia is a great place for insects once you find the best spots but be careful with the land mines, you will definitely see the impact land mines have had on the local Cambodias.
I hope this helps. I also asked on this forum for info regarding collecting in Cambodia but it seems like not many have been collecting there or just not willing to share.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Nov 20, 2018 21:41:27 GMT -8
I wouldn’t expect too many moths in February and March as it is dry season. The best months for moths and beetles are in rain season. In Cambodia similar to continental Thailand and Laos rain season is from May till November.
However it could be interesting time for butterflies.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Nov 21, 2018 2:59:02 GMT -8
Yeah I forgot about land mines. Many areas are marked but I’m sure many are not so dont wander around without a guide.
As I warned be careful about opportunist criminals. It took my knife blade on a tuktuk drivers throat to remind him in which direction my hotel lay.
|
|
|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 21, 2018 3:18:41 GMT -8
Thank you all for the excellent and friendly advice. My main concern was not being jailed for ecoterrorism for taking dead material back home, some countries are really relaxed with collecting while others are harsh.
My collecting will serve two purposes. I have been hired as the consultant of Banteay Srey Butterfly Centre (Cambodia). My job will be to breed Saturniidae in Cambodia and improve their breeding facility, document and research local Saturniidae fauna, and teach the locals how to breed them. I believe they are always there even in the dry season. But the worst of the dry season begins after I leave in March/April. I will be there myself from 1 feb to 10 march.
That part will be my job. Now to breed Saturniidae I need to find Saturniidae. I hope to find common and easy to breed lowland species like Attacus atlas, Actias selene, Cricula and Loepa for commercial farming.
I am also an amateur Lepidopterist myself and will be taking things for my own personal collection - dead moths mainly. It would be great to take specimens of Sphingidae, Brahmaeidae, Arctiinae etc.. and add them to my collection.
I am not a very well traveled person so thank you for all the tips. This is my first time traveling alone and so far from home! Survival tips and essential "street smarts" welcome. I think I will need to develop some common sense.. but maybe that is good for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 21, 2018 3:22:34 GMT -8
Hi Bart. I don't have any information about Cambodia unfortunately, but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum. I have watched many of your insect videos on Youtube. Best of luck collecting. Thank you, of course I will be documenting the most interesting insects on YouTube too |
|
|
|
Post by eurytides on Nov 21, 2018 4:46:37 GMT -8
Hi Bart. I don't have any information about Cambodia unfortunately, but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum. I have watched many of your insect videos on Youtube. Best of luck collecting. Thank you, of course I will be documenting the most interesting insects on YouTube too That's great that you got hired as a consultant and that your passion is turning into a career. I imagine it's both scary and exciting to travel to a tropical foreign country, to have the chance to see a variety of different plants and fauna. I hope you have a good time. The most important thing is to stay safe. Remember to get your vaccinations up to date as well! |
|
|
|
Post by 18duroe on Nov 21, 2018 6:26:50 GMT -8
My main concern was not being jailed for ecoterrorism for taking dead material back home, some countries are really relaxed with collecting I wouldn’t worry about getting in trouble for collecting, especially if outside any parks. If you do venture out collecting try to get a local to accompany you, s/he can guide you straight to the better areas and prevent you from getting into trouble. |
|
|
|
Post by 18duroe on Nov 21, 2018 6:29:26 GMT -8
My main concern was not being jailed for ecoterrorism for taking dead material back home, some countries are really relaxed with collecting I wouldn’t worry about getting in trouble for collecting, especially if outside any parks. If you do venture out collecting try to get a local to accompany you, s/he can guide you straight to the better areas and prevent you from getting into trouble. Not to mention that Siem Reap customs is almost non existent, although you may see some cases of seized specimens in the airports “dont traffic wildlife “ section but most are tourists souvenires. |
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Nov 21, 2018 6:42:04 GMT -8
It seems you are well tied in to avoid many of the pitfalls of entomological study in a 3rd world country. ALWAYS have a local with you when in the field.
Make sure you take at least a day (preferably two) to visit Angkor Wat, Thom, etc. It's not just Angkor Wat, that whole area has a dozen Wats spanning a significant period of development. Some are stone, some are brick, and the architecture changes as well. Get the best guide you can to explain the magnificent carvings. Be prepared to take many, many photos.
Don't buy bootleg software CDs, they have viruses.
If you get near Phnom Pehn, go to the killing fields and see what happens when a group/ government goes unchecked. Cambodia of the 1960s was developed and beautiful. KR destroyed the country. Be careful asking or talking about that period, many of the people, particularly in the rural areas around Siam Reap, were on the KR side and still lean in that direction. Before you go watch the movie "The Killing Fields" so you understand what these people suffered through. Be prepared to meet people who lost their entire families and the far-off look and alcohol problems that go with it.
Near Siam Reap is the children's hospital, one that rivals any of those in Europe. It's astonishing to find it stashed away in the jungles of a 3rd world country. It was founded and run by Dr. Beat Richter "Dr. Beatacello" a Swiss doctor who passed only two months ago. He raised funds for the hospital on his own, with the trademark being a symphony orchestra that played weekly in the hospital- yes, a symphony in the middle of nowhere! See if that is still happening, it's an experience one should not miss.
Be prepared to have roaches and lizards in your room. It's standard tropical fare everywhere except Hyatt Erawan in Bangkok. Get used to it.
Take extras. Extra MV bulb, ballast, net bags, envelopes. Take antibiotics and anti-diarreah medicine. And sunscreen and sun glasses. Don't leave anything outside your hotel room, it will disappear. If you keep specimens in your room, keep them in the freezer if you have one.
Always carry a small plastic bag (in USA, a shopping bag) so you can cover valuables when it pours rain. Put your passport in a ziploc waterproof bag and keep it with you.
Do not keep your wallet in your back pocket- front pocket or somewhere else. In fact, take all the crap out of your wallet and leave it home- keep your wallet as slim as possible; I don't carry a wallet, I carry a money clip.
Keep money in both front pockets, a little bit in your right pocket (assuming you are right handed) and the bulk of the cash in the other pocket; that way if you need to ante up money (theft or shakedown) you can reach into the correct pocket and pull out "all your money" without losing all your money. Also good for shopping because nobody sees you pull out a bunch of big bills- and yes, to them, they are big bills. If you wear a watch, bring a cheap watch.
You will be begged for money- sidewalk music performers and kids. Many of the older beggars will be missing limbs from getting blowed up. Frankly (and sadly) most of these are not landmine injuries, 80% are from trying to dismantle bombs for the metal to resell. Anyway, I won't tell you what to do about giving them money- though the kids are sent out by parents and the injured performers really do depend on their begging.
"###t happens" in 3rd world countries. I was sitting at a tourist pub in PP when a gun battle with AK47s (yes, truly AK47s, actually AKS-47s FWIW) broke out between some crooks and the cops, right in front of me. I could have hit them with a Heineken bottle they were so close. Be aware. Nothing good happens after midnight...well, nothing good happens in Cambodia after 8pm.
Wanna buy a young kid or prostitute? Non stop you will hear this. Child trafficing for sex is rampant in the cities. Keep your nose out of it for your own good. Everybody wants to make a difference, your difference could be deadness. Stay away from the prostitutes. Stay away from the girls working at pubs- many are prostitutes or opportunists. They are beautiful, and financially dangerous.
Don't buy antiquities, don't buy buddhas. They're not allowed out of the country and they do watch, and they will seize them, and depending on what you have, you could be arrested. Don't trust the cops, they're criminals with badges.
Be prepared to come home with a jaded perception of humanity and society. What you will experience will forever leave a hole in your heart, but hopefully it will make you a better person.
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Nov 21, 2018 7:18:05 GMT -8
When exactly was the last time (year) that you were in Cambodia exoticimports? I doubt Bart will buy bootlegged DVDs as DVD is a dead technology. Most laptops don't have a reader anymore.
I was traveling in SEA the last weeks and I must say I have felt much saver there compared to now on Waikiki Beach Hawaii with all the ####ing meth addicts.
Also to be fair I haven't been in Cambodia, can't give direct advise, but my friends travelled on to Cambodia (last month) after I left for Japan and they had the time of their life. Can ask them for more information if you want to know anything specific. Didn't report anything bad. The country is in heavy development as China is now converting the whole of SEA from poor postwar countries towards modern global players.
|
|
|
|
Post by nomihoudai on Nov 21, 2018 7:23:40 GMT -8
The GDP per capita of Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam has tripled since 2004 and is in a strong growth. This increases income a lot, and with this crime is strongly reduced. Crime always comes with an opportunity cost. You have to consider how much you must gain in a crime, compared to the losses when being caught. A much higher income will strongly decrease crime as honest work becomes a much better way of life.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Nov 21, 2018 7:59:58 GMT -8
Indeed Chinese don’t want to be a work horse anymore, they are becoming investors and move many of the factories/ manufactures to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia where they can still find cheaper labour. Saying that they are creating a lot of new jobs for poor that were only be able to rely on unprofitable farming.
For many locals it is great opportunity to work in there own country instead of being underpaid, unfairly traeted and much too often humiliated in neighbouring more developed Thailand.
|
|
|
|
Post by wollastoni on Nov 22, 2018 8:16:14 GMT -8
Cambodia is a rather safe country. Congrats Bart ! It will be a great adventure. If you have good contact there, you should try and organize a trip on Mount Tumpor. There are some new species / subspecies to be discovered there. And if you catch some Delias vietnamensis pequini, you will be a rich man ! |
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Nov 22, 2018 14:15:59 GMT -8
China is building now high speed train to Capital of Laos, Vientiane.
I wonder where’s gonna be “3rd world” in few decades.
In Canada high speed trains don’t exist.
Travel between two biggest cities Toronto and Montreal still takes more than 6 hrs. by the outdated by half a century diesel locomotives. Commuting in and out of the city takes forever too. No improvements in the plans for near future whatsoever as there is no money left, bringing in and paying all for Muslim refuges is more important than improving live of Canadians 🤮
|
|
|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 24, 2018 5:49:44 GMT -8
I just heard I will be moth trapping in the Cardamon mountains (South Cambodia), Luang Prabang (Laos), and several other very unique high elevation locations too. New species for Cambodia may turn up. All the neighbouring countries such as Vietnam, Laos and Thailand count 35 to 50 species of Saturniidae. And Cambodia about 16 as far as I know. I do not believe it. It must be a lack of observation. Unless that many species obey the border from all sides. And thank you Mr. Nabokov for your awesome and elaborate post. From my background research modern day Cambodia is very safe but still has the same problems associated with rich tourists in relatively poor countries. But most tourist attacks appear to be "just" theft, so I guess it is still a cut above countries where they will just murder you instead of rob you  Besides that, landmines, venomous snakes and malaria I should be okay I hope  |
|
|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 24, 2018 5:51:40 GMT -8
Cambodia is a rather safe country. Congrats Bart ! It will be a great adventure. If you have good contact there, you should try and organize a trip on Mount Tumpor. There are some new species / subspecies to be discovered there. And if you catch some Delias vietnamensis pequini, you will be a rich man ! Thank you, I will keep an eye out I know all the good Saturniidae from the top of my head when I see them but I do not know too much about hawkmoths, butterflies and other insect groups.. so tips are welcome, I plan on taking some specimens home too. |
|
|
|
Post by alandmor on Nov 25, 2018 10:29:46 GMT -8
I just heard I will be moth trapping in the Cardamon mountains (South Cambodia), Luang Prabang (Laos), and several other very unique high elevation locations too. New species for Cambodia may turn up. All the neighbouring countries such as Vietnam, Laos and Thailand count 35 to 50 species of Saturniidae. And Cambodia about 16 as far as I know. I do not believe it. It must be a lack of observation. Unless that many species obey the border from all sides. And thank you Mr. Nabokov for your awesome and elaborate post. From my background research modern day Cambodia is very safe but still has the same problems associated with rich tourists in relatively poor countries. But most tourist attacks appear to be "just" theft, so I guess it is still a cut above countries where they will just murder you instead of rob you Besides that, landmines, venomous snakes and malaria I should be okay I hope You could contact Santi Collard (on Facebook) about collecting in Luang Prabang, Laos. He has an insect business based there I believe. Also some YouTube videos: Sounds like a fun trip. |
|
|
|
Post by bartcoppens on Nov 26, 2018 10:09:26 GMT -8
Thanks a lot.
I have been told that the authorities in Laos are not so happy with collectors as the ones in Cambodia.
Is it wise to bribe them in Laos if we are confronted or will that only make more trouble? We will need to keep a low profile.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Nov 26, 2018 13:32:49 GMT -8
I’ve been collecting in Laos many times and no one cares.
There are no set laws in regards insects and even if so no one knows about them include autorities.
The best way to collect is with local who can speak English ( good lack to find one ) so you can communicate with autorities if approach.
If Police or rangers look for some cash they will “fine” you, don’t offer money first!
Adam had also collect many times in Laos and he could probably share his experience.
I found once some artical written by “Luang Prabang Travel Exclusive” which wants to promote it self as it is the only legal tour company in Laos to organize collecting trips.
This is of course only advertising trick to scare and lure more clients.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Nov 27, 2018 4:21:13 GMT -8
If officials ask for a bribe, negotiate. Thus the small bills in one pocket "this is all I have". Never offer to go to an ATM, if you have to offer to go to the hotel and get more cash. And, ask if you are going to get a receipt. Oddly enough, sometimes you will, but in general it can reduce the cost.
Some tourists may claim a large region or country perfectly safe. Sure, if you stay in an all-inclusive in Ocho Rios, Jamaica is great! And, tourists tend to group together making less of an interesting target. And, as I said, nothing good ever happens at night, particularly after alcohol fuels the borderline law abiders- even including downtown Nuku'alofa, Suva, and Papeete. I know a guy who's young family lived in Lae for years, and "nothing happened" but they were smart enough to take precautions.
You can't lump a country with a common claim to security. Cities are where the criminals are, by and large. Crime tends with the government, and trends with the economy. In Patpong you may get your pocket picked, but that's about it; in Siam Reap you are far more likely to be injured in a robbery than in Bangkok, and certainly far more likely than in Hanoi. KL has long been very safe, but with the drop in oil prices and loss of government services and control, crime is on the rise. The problem for tourists is that you can feel safe when you're not, and then it's too late.
The fact that some world travellers have journeyed to or collected in certain areas is not indicative of the general security situation or the safety of a new traveller. When in under-developed countries it is easy to spot the seasoned visitor, and the new people (hint #1: the new people are wearing short pants). I went in and out of Solomon Islands during their civil war; though I survived, some peace keepers did not, so certainly I'd have not advised it for most travellers.
In Cambodia, like I said, there remains a very real vestige of the KR, and they (and offspring) retain the way of thinking, which often includes opportunistic criminal activity. Once in country for a while you will gain insight and the ability to generally spot trouble.
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by 18duroe on Nov 27, 2018 5:03:29 GMT -8
Thanks a lot. I have been told that the authorities in Laos are not so happy with collectors as the ones in Cambodia. Is it wise to bribe them in Laos if we are confronted or will that only make more trouble? We will need to keep a low profile. If you get a guide, he should be able to advise you on what to do! |
|
my main interest is moths. 
