What is the status of Catocala luctuosa?

[trehopr1]

I thought I would ask for some opinions on the status of the apparently very rare species of black underwing known as Catocala luctuosa. After looking at some of the species records on the moth photographers site I noted that C. luctuosa has only been collected in 6 locations on the Eastern seaboard; effectively making it the rarest of the "black species" of Catocala.
So my very general question is whether the species is still legitimate, or has it been downgraded to subspecies status. Additionally, has anyone actually collected it in recent times and what exactly makes it so localized a species. I have also never heard of any of our intrepid Catocala followers on this forum relating any instance of its capture.
Just some idle curiosity here on my part as I certainly am not quite as well versed in Catocala as some of those present on the forum.

[rayrard]

I have a bunch of retecta and have always considered that a form of retecta, but I'd like to see a series of specimens from those who think it is separate. In all my Catocala hunts with Larry Gall, he never mentions the name luctuosa.

[Deleted]

Yes, it is not common, but I'd suggest you check out Bill O.'s site for NA Catocalas as it is listed as having come from many states.

www.silkmoths.bizland.com/Catocala/catluctuosa.htm

I've only have three in my collection and know of a guy in TN who also caught some too.

These are from Union Co. and LaSalle Co., in IL.

[beetlehorn]

The last I heard is that Catocala luctuosa is no longer a form or subspecies of Catocala retecta. It stands as a separate species. I have collected both in August, and have noticed that C. luctuosa is more numerous where I collect than C. retecta. In fact I have stopped collecting them because I bypassed them looking for something else.Here is a rather stark comparison of the two species. Notice the "warmer", more brown overall patterning of C. luctuosa (top) than the mostly grey background of C. retecta on the bottom.

[trehopr1]

Thank you everyone for your kind replies and photo's. I shall have to look thru some of my own black Catocala for this species. I did manage to collect some dark ones in Union Co. in Southern Ill. I will be looking for the warmer more overall brown patterning and certain key marks as my guide. I take it that August is the general flight time of the species.
I noticed Bill that your second specimen is a much more grey overall than your other two which appear lighter and browner in color (as mentioned by beetle horn). The other marks though all seem to be in the right places so maybe some darker (albeit greyer) individuals are also known from this most uncommon species.
I would think the relative rarity of this species in collections would make it something of a target for Catocala fanciers. C. marmorata seems almost to have a cult status and catching just one elicites many congratulations. Perhaps, because this species lacks the brilliant red of marmorata and the fact that it is easily confused with other dark species means it is easily overlooked or even forgotten by most collectors.

[Deleted]

Yes, I agree......luctuosa is less dramatic compared to C. marmorata, but still is a good catch. In case you missed it, I caught my first marmorata last year and am going again there to try for more this summer. Btw....the link I referred to also shows slightly grayer specimens w less brown. These have a " look" to them in the FWs when among C. retecta.

Like many cats, there are spots where even the rare stuff can be in good numbers. My friend Eric Smith has a marmorata honey hole and has caught many over the years and was with me when I got mine. Eric now knows of two spots where they fly which is awesome. He even shared generously with me and his other friends....nice guy he is. Marmorata is indeed the Holy Grail of cats as I see it.

[leptraps]

I have specimens from Indiana and Virginia. Have not encountered in Kentucky yet. There is a record from the Bloomfield Barrens in Spencer County , IN (The record and location can be found in the Season Summary Data Base.). I visited the Spencer County area SW of the Bloomfeild Barrens Nature Preserve. I encountered Calephelis mutica along the Pigeon Creek. An interesting location. I plan to trap for moths in this area beginning about the 2nd week in May.

I also found some Pheromone Traps along the Pigeon Creek. I hung a note on one and put a note inside another. No one ever contacted me. We shall see what the season brings.

I have the feeling it may not be as scarce as we think. Some may find them, think they at Catocala retecta and let them fly. I have often wondered how many Catocala umbrosa I let fly over the years thinking they were Catocala ilia.

Just an interesting side note. I have a Bait Trap hanging in a Black Locust Tree in my yard.(No Catocala yet, a bit too early). Tuesday night a severe Thunderstorm rolled or should I say rumbled through Scott County, Kentucky. When I looked out the kitchen window in the morning, my trap was gone. I found it hanging in the Red Oak along side our home. Found the Plate Form on the ground on the other side of the house.

[rayrard]

I'm still not seeing any differences in my retecta material.

What do people think? These are all from Connecticut. Maybe luctuosa is one of those southern species?

Attachments:

[Deleted]

Yours appear to be all C. retecta in my humble opinion. While most seem to come from the middle and southern region, my LaSalle Co. specimen is from northern IL a mere 13 miles ne of my home. Have not seen one since at that location. The Union Co. two are from southern IL.

[trehopr1]

Your group in the photo does not seem to me to have quite as much of the brown coloration present as in the specimens posted by billgarthe and beetlehorn. I'm also unable to really compare and contrast the wing markings using my IPad here. I must admit to a certain level of frustration with some of these dark species of catocala. Whilst some species are reasonably easy to differentiate; others just don't come easy and wind up in the (undet.) section of some catocala drawer. I'll bet most every private collection with some measure of Catocala has a section dedicated to undet. species,probable species,hybrids,and aberrations.
It's easy to understand why the early lepidopterists who were putting names to this group would get in heated arguments and have strained relations over some of them.

[leptraps]

I have lived in both the north (OH, IN, IL.) and in the south (FL, VA, NC, MS). As a result, I amassed a large collection of Catocala. I thought I knew my Catocala until I moved to Mississppi. For the first time I found Catocala I could not positively identify. Especially the Black hindwing species.

I currently learned the identity of three:

Catocala atocala
Catocala luctosa
Catocala myristica

I still have five or six more from Mississippi that I still cannot positively identify.

Go to the Catocala plates on MPG. You will find Catocala retecta and Catocala luctosa side by side. They look like twins to me. The Catocala luctosa does not look like the Catocala luctosa in my collection.

I also had specimens of Catocala umbrosa from VA and KY. I also have one specimen from NE Ohio that I collected in 1985.

And if you think the above is confusing, I collected lots of Speyeria last year during my trip west. CO, WY, ND & UT. Talk about splitting hairs with an Axe. Silvered, unsilvered, high altitude, east side of the Rockies, Canadian looking things.

And then there is Catocala micronympha. There is more than one species in that moth.

[Deleted]

I bet I've got some of them since I live in Union county IL. I would know for certain if I could get them out of the freezer and spread.

[beetlehorn]

I must agree with you trehopr. I often encounter so many Catocalas each season, and amongst the black Catocalas there are always some examples I just cannot positively identify. I see so many of them on my sheet that I sometimes don't bother collecting them because they can be frustrating to categorize. I'll post some pics later on this.

[oehlkew]

Here is a view of a Catocala frederici rarely seen as a live specimen.
www.silkmoths.bizland.com/Catocala/catfrederic.htm
Dave Barker just sent me the photo from Val Verde County, western Texas.

[bobborth]

Apr 7, 2017 18:57:32 GMT -8 trehopr1 said:

I thought I would ask for some opinions on the status of the apparently very rare species of black underwing known as Catocala luctuosa. After looking at some of the species records on the moth photographers site I noted that C. luctuosa has only been collected in 6 locations on the Eastern seaboard; effectively making it the rarest of the "black species" of Catocala.
So my very general question is whether the species is still legitimate, or has it been downgraded to subspecies status. Additionally, has anyone actually collected it in recent times and what exactly makes it so localized a species. I have also never heard of any of our intrepid Catocala followers on this forum relating any instance of its capture.
Just some idle curiosity here on my part as I certainly am not quite as well versed in Catocala as some of those present on the forum.