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Post by bluemoth on Mar 12, 2011 13:17:33 GMT -8
Some of you may know about potassium salt already in regards to killing insects. It is some thing new to me that my friend told me about. Three tablespoons potassium salt mixed with 50ML of water will knock insects out very quickly. It works better than ammonia. Just inject a tiny bit of this mixture into the insect with a syringe. My friend said it first makes the insect sleep then when it reaches the hart the hart stops.
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Post by bichos on Mar 18, 2011 5:18:27 GMT -8
Really, have you tried it already? I would be reluctant to try it as it may affect the specimens colour or take a long time to kill it. Why would you recommend this chemical?
Personally I prefer Ethyl Acetate, I cannot get Chloroform otherways I'd probably use it. I used petrol once I had nothing else and no I don't recommend it, lots of beetles and nowhere to put them lol. Boiling water, it's good short term, you have to be creative when you have many beetles trying to escape or chew each other to bits.
I have also used decapitation with mixed results.
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 18, 2011 7:56:43 GMT -8
yeah but I think for butterflies some of these chemicals stiffens the specimen to the point of being unspreadable in the future
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Post by bobw on Mar 18, 2011 9:05:12 GMT -8
yeah but I think for butterflies some of these chemicals stiffens the specimen to the point of being unspreadable in the future I find that with Ethyl acetate! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 9:36:17 GMT -8
for most leps where suitable I pinch the thorax, this is not suitable for the more robust leps however, I personally have never had a problem with setting/spreading after ethal dispatch.
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Post by saturniidave on Mar 18, 2011 10:36:43 GMT -8
Nor me.
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Post by dertodesking on Mar 18, 2011 12:02:53 GMT -8
I have also used decapitation with mixed results. ...but one guaranteed result - a damaged specimen!  Simon |
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 18, 2011 12:02:59 GMT -8
I had problems with those Papilio androgeus females from "southamerican butterflies"
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Post by downundermoths on Mar 18, 2011 15:32:37 GMT -8
yeah but I think for butterflies some of these chemicals stiffens the specimen to the point of being unspreadable in the future I find that with Ethyl acetate! I have never had any real problems with Ethyl Acetate and have used it solely for more decades than I care to remember... Barry |
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 18, 2011 16:17:52 GMT -8
I assume a lot of the purchased butterflies have been killed with chemicals such as Ethyl Acetate, so maybe it was something more specific and seldom used chemical that causes some specimens to stiffen
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Post by Chris Grinter on Mar 18, 2011 16:51:21 GMT -8
I'd be shocked if EA is causing stiffness. One of the benefits for me is that it helps keep things supple. Ammonia is also great at doing this, but a less effective killing agent.
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Post by africaone on Mar 19, 2011 0:06:19 GMT -8
I use ammoniaque (by injection) for many many years and it is really a good method for all medium sized and big sized lepido. It make more easy the butterfly to be spread even many years after.
I use EA for killing small moth with good result and of course with many more care. It is not so easy to use (many accident possible) but the best way to kill small things for which injection is impossible.
Of course abdomen crush for butterflies (not the best but the most useful in the field). Always completed by ammonia injection later, if it is not enough (for some group as Amauris, Acrea, Charaxes, ...)
For coleo only EA in sawdust. It is really the best method I ever used and I never seen a disavantadge for it (except to keep the botlle far from heat and sun... quite obvious !). and so many advantages (useful, preservation, etc.). Some time for very big coleo (espacially golaith and prionid), I used ammonia injection in the head via the mouth.
Thierry
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Post by bobw on Mar 19, 2011 2:06:19 GMT -8
I don't understand why I get different results to other people but I gave up using Ethyl acetate for butterflies years ago because it made everything as stiff as a board and almost impossible to subsequently set. Now, in the field I pinch evrything except for fat-bodied moths like Saturniids and Sphingids; at home I exclusively use the freezer. I wouldn't want to carry a killing in the field anyway because of the weight and bulk.
Bob
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Post by africaone on Mar 19, 2011 2:19:46 GMT -8
Bob, details
I only kill small and medium moth with AE. You need to put them quickly in paper (after detah !!) and then put in freezer (or stocked max 2-3 days in plastic box with chemicals to avoid bacterian degradation or mycoses). Avoid also condensation in the boxes. After they are easy to relax and set (like just killed).
If you wait too much after killing, it become rigid (rigor mortis). Or you wait it becomes more soft (that doesn't work alsways) or you pinch slightly the abdomen with clamp to interfer on muscles (that works many times).
never used with butteflies because of decoloration, complexity and weight during walking. It is too much slowling the hunt for this case.
Thierry
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Post by lordpandarus on Mar 19, 2011 8:24:58 GMT -8
wait you guys are talking about frozen, freshly caught butterflies.
I'm talking about regular dried papered butterflies that you spread much later. Those are the ones I mean might be affected by those chemicals becoming stiff ( In that I mean the stay stiff after normal re-hydratation process). Of course they never become AS supple as freshly caught or frozen, but I mean a lot worse than that
All Papilio are normally easily spreadable after 2 days in the relaxing box . It doesn't make sense those P. androgeus stay as stiff as a board after 2 days in between wet paper towels
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