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Post by jshuey on Oct 1, 2015 14:22:25 GMT -8
I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate concern, just that posting that right now a permit is required for any and all insect-catching in California is premature and panic-mongering. If/when the state of CA gives a ruling that this is required for any and all handling of insects (because picking something up or taking something in to rear, even if it is then released, is "take"), then I will accept that and have no choice but to abide by that. Until then, we all know that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" and that is usually a woeful thing. For the third time here - this regulation applies to scientific collecting. My permits page is in regards to non-commercial, scientific collecting. My comments are about scientific collecting. If you're doing any sort of research, collecting for an educational purpose, or breeding, it appears this law applies given it includes all wildlife in the state of CA. The law does not explicit state that non-scientific collecting is allowed, but it doesn't say it requires a permit either (=no permit required). I'll forth what Chris says here. This is perhaps the best resource out there on how to get a scientific permit (if there is a better source - or even an alternative one - then I am unaware of its existence). I've used it with success many times - and if I ever need a California permit - I'll go to Chris' web page to find out what he knows about it. If it scares you, then look away! John |
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Post by joee30 on Oct 1, 2015 18:28:25 GMT -8
I don't know what all the bickering is all about, but Chris does have a point. Sadly, the state of California's wildlife agencies are run by bureaucrats, so they enforce anything they can on the common folk. Same goes with fishing.
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Post by cabintom on Oct 1, 2015 21:43:04 GMT -8
I just want to chime in with support for Chris and the information he has provided. Pointing out the speed limit on a street is far different from pulling out your own radar and calling the cops anytime someone's driving too fast.
In the end, laws are the law, and if a person would rather live in pseudo-anarchy than abide by those laws, I'd invite that individual to come move to the D.R. Congo so that they might see what kind of world that results.
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Post by uvarmsrace on Oct 28, 2018 21:56:02 GMT -8
Thanks for providing that link. It is good to read the actual rule. The part for collecting for scientific and education purposes does not specify where this is needed (private land?). Collecting endangered species is explicitly restricted on both public and private land of course. I wish the regulation would state the major purpose for which it is being written: A) to discourage scientific research and education? B) to grab as much money as possible for the state? C) to cover the expense related to issuing permits which have no purpose? If they could, they would require car drivers to buy a permit before smashing insects on the front grill. If only they could get birds to pay before eating insects, especially eating the endangered butterflies. |
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Post by uvarmsrace on Oct 28, 2018 21:59:03 GMT -8
Read Section 507(u)5A and B
Terrestrial invertebrates are excluded from requiring the permit, if they meet the conditions in A and B. Most collecting would meet those conditions.
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Post by joee30 on Nov 1, 2018 10:47:52 GMT -8
Sigh. What is your goal here Chris? What exactly are you trying to do? I seriously am beginning to question your motives in perpetuating this. Are you trying to get this enforced on us all? Is it that you think you will win brownie points for your permit applications by making these "goody two shoes" assertions? I'm scratching my head on this one. You are not an employee of Cal Fish and Game, and as far as I know you are not close personal friends with any. What are you trying to prove here? I think that from this point out, I will ignore all further replies from you. I'll listen to the state, not one lepidopterist who has some (in my opinion) rather weird motive for lecturing us all. Papiliotheona, I am not trying to take any sides on this matter, but I do not think Chris has had any "alterior motives" in letting folks know, especially us amateurs what the different state and national regulations are. His permits page has helped me greatly in regards to knowing where I can collect without getting hassled, and how to apply for permits if need be. At the same time, I can understand your point about butterfly farming/ rearing. I don't think these permits would matter if you are rearing to learn a life cycle and or rear to keep the specimens, but I wouldn't be surprised if the state is trumping up charges and rules to get more money out of folks. When I first read about the "scientific" collecting permit, I scoffed and figured they are out to milk collectors for money, much like what they have done with fishing and hunting licenses. |
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