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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 22, 2013 2:05:34 GMT -8
I want to know how many other collectors out there are as obsessive as I am when it comes to finding a size or sp of target beetles where countries that have no insect dealer? The only way for me to find the sp I want from countries like Cambodia, Nepal, Sri Lanka...... is to travel there myself but the cost of flying, traveling and labour overseas is on a increase every year. After I came back from my long overseas trips this year, I am asking myself is the money I spent on my trip worth it? I think it's a very high price to pay in oder to find what I want because if I want to sell my catches, there's no way I can get back the money I spent on my trip.
How many people out there would collect overseas very year by themselves?
There has been alot of topics on how much it costs to buy specimens from ebay but there hasn't been any topics on the costs of traveling and collecting.
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 22, 2013 4:45:36 GMT -8
Well my trips in Asia/Oceania must cost between 2000 and 6000 each depending of the area... But I don't see this as a cost but as beautiful holidays.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 22, 2013 5:10:04 GMT -8
I offen think it would so much easier, so much cheaper, so much less to carry and so much more sleep if I just collect butterflies just like everyone else but I'm not. What I do enjoy is the problem solving part in order to collect what I want but it's alway comes with a cost. I can't never call my overseas collecting a holiday because I only get no more than 3 hours sleep every night after 5-6 months I lost 15kg. So I think the best way to lose wight is to try and collect beetle overseas, I would never work that hard for a paid job. My body was at a breaking point from lack of sleep.
My trip costed me more than 17000usd for 6 months.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 22, 2013 6:13:57 GMT -8
I have asked some Czech collectors who collected Parnassius species in various countries and the costs were about 3000-4000 Euros for 3 weeks (China, Tibet, India...). I was thinking about a trip to Himalayas as there are many rare species, which are expensive and not often offered. It's not as easy as just going there. Firstly collecting is not allowed in India, and most of the interesting species are mainly found in Tibet, so you would have the political risk that Tibet may be closed to foreigners just when you want to go there. Also just as importantly, many of the rarer Parnassius have a 2 year life cycle, so if you go to the right place in the wrong year you won't find them anyway. Adam. PS. You almost certainly know all this already, but I thought I'd mention it both for your information and other readers here.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 22, 2013 6:59:50 GMT -8
I have asked some Czech collectors who collected Parnassius species in various countries and the costs were about 3000-4000 Euros for 3 weeks (China, Tibet, India...). I was thinking about a trip to Himalayas as there are many rare species, which are expensive and not often offered. If you want to collect in China and you better do it soon because China will be the richest country in the world, what is cheap now dosen't mean it will be cheap next year or the year after. Every year I've gone back to China, the cost of living is near twice every year. Soon enough it will be too expensive to travel and it's already getting harder and harder to bring insects out of China. This year on my way to China from Cambodia. They were showing all passengers on plane it's illegal to import or export insects in or out of China. Luckily I've got enough beetles from China.
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Post by nomad on Dec 22, 2013 10:36:39 GMT -8
I think you are fortunate to be able to spend six months of the year collecting and travelling, if that's your passion . I do admire your dedication. However few private collectors have the time or the money to undertake such enterprises as a six month long expedition, especially those that live in the Northern Hemisphere. Most are content with getting their specimens from other sources. I know of a few collectors who undertake serious expeditions to remote jungles on islands and spent months at time in their study and collecting of lepidoptera, as you mention in inhospitable conditions.
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Post by papiliotheona on Dec 22, 2013 16:38:36 GMT -8
I believe collecting is against the law (or very, very nearly so) in every single one of these countries named. As Adam Cotton pointed out India completely outlaws collecting--they're worse than Brazil, even. Their laws are based in Hinduism--that beetle you kill could be somebody's resurrected grandmother.
I don't think China (and Tibet) are much better. I think in China if you have the right university connections and have the cash to pay a government-sponsored chaperone to accompany you at all times in the field, it's doable (at least according to Chris Grinter's blog).
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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 22, 2013 17:03:38 GMT -8
Yes, I am a bit fortunate when it comes to I have no one to hold me back from doing what I want in my life but I save up for quite a numbers of years before I can do this trip. Everyone talks about the deforestation all over the world but no one talks about the inflations the whole world is facing which makes insects that much more expensive every year to buy/catch, which ever way people are choosing. I think everyone should know by now this is an expensive hobby and there's no ways around it, if you don't any money. I get this feeling no one wants to talk about the cost of traveling.
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Post by jonathan on Dec 23, 2013 0:08:55 GMT -8
Before I go for an expedition, I always do my calculations to get a good estimate of how much the trip will cost. Normally my expeditions are between one and two weeks long and I go in Europe so it is a pretty straightforward task to do the maths. If I had to sell all the best specimens I catch, I believe that I would end with a breakeven or a very slim profit at best but then again I would end up with just tattered and common specimens in my collection. So definitely I don't consider quitting my job and live out of collecting. For every trip I go, I keep an account of what I spend. For example I know that my first 7-day trip to Spain costed me €367 (inc. flights, car rental, fuel, meals, etc) whilst a year later, an 11-day trip to Spain again costed me €519. So the cost for me is around €50 a day. The rented car always serves both as a means to travel and accomodation as I sleep in the car where ever I go to save on costs.
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Post by nomad on Dec 23, 2013 0:25:38 GMT -8
Our fascinating hobby can be as expensive as any collector wishes to make it. You had a huge outlay, but as Olivier rightly pointed out, our memories of our collecting adventures will last a lifetime, whether or not you were collecting in the jungles of the far East as you did, or high on a Mountain, in a temperate forest etc, as many here have. I had often heard people moan about how expensive those rare or uncommon specimens cost, but it is good to remember how much those specimens would cost, if you had to visit those far off counties to collect them yourself, that is if you were lucky enough to find them in the first place, even if you had the money for such a trip, you might come back empty handed! Off course I mentioning those that would go in search of a particular rare specimens, not those that go to study insects of one region, then your always going to come back with something interesting.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 23, 2013 1:38:03 GMT -8
Our fascinating hobby can be as expensive as any collector wishes to make it. You had a huge outlay, but as Olivier rightly pointed out, our memories of our collecting adventures will last a lifetime, whether or not you were collecting in the jungles of the far East as you did, or high on a Mountain, in a temperate forest etc, as many here have. I had often heard people moan about how expensive those rare or uncommon specimens cost, but it is good to remember how much those specimens would cost, if you had to visit those far off counties to collect them yourself, that is if you were lucky enough to find them in the first place, even if you had the money for such a trip, you might come back empty handed! Off course I mentioning those that would go in search of a particular rare specimens, not those that go to study insects of one region, then your always going to come back with something interesting. Very good point for those people who complains how expensive a rare specimen costs, they should also know how much it costs to travel and find it themselves. It may be more than 3-10 trips before you can find anything of interests. Inflations are the biggest enemy when it comes to this hobby.
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Post by bobw on Dec 23, 2013 5:11:45 GMT -8
Yes, I am a bit fortunate when it comes to I have no one to hold me back from doing what I want in my life but I save up for quite a numbers of years before I can do this trip. Everyone talks about the deforestation all over the world but no one talks about the inflations the whole world is facing which makes insects that much more expensive every year to buy/catch, which ever way people are choosing. I think everyone should know by now this is an expensive hobby and there's no ways around it, if you don't any money. I get this feeling no one wants to talk about the cost of traveling. I don't think anyone's reluctant to discuss it; it's just that if you want to make a trip you have to pay whatever it costs. Flights, car hire, petrol and accomodation are all very expensive; there can also be other major costs such as permits and guides. I'm in the same fortunate position as you in that I have nobody to answer to so I can go away whenever I like, but I still have to take time off work so I'm limited to 2 or 3 weeks. The other big problem is finding companions who want to go to the same place at the same time that you do. Collecting trips are expensive. I probaly made a dozen three week trips to exotic places in the course of ten years from 1996 and all probably cost me more than 2,000 pounds. Even a few small 1 week trips to parts of Europe I've made in the last few years have probably cost me around 800 each. I had planned a trip to Canada a few months ago but when I calculated it would cost me over 2,000 pounds for a 2 week trip, I decided I couldn't justify the cost for the sort of material I'd be likely to collect - it would be cheaper to buy it. Bob
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Post by lucanidae25 on Dec 23, 2013 23:34:39 GMT -8
I love traveling by myself and I wouldn't go with anyone else, I enjoy the freedom to do what ever I want. I couldn't think of anything worse than having someone there with me.
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Post by bobw on Dec 24, 2013 3:45:55 GMT -8
I love traveling by myself and I wouldn't go with anyone else, I enjoy the freedom to do what ever I want. I couldn't think of anything worse than having someone there with me. Each to their own. I would never make a collecting trip on my own, mainly from a safety point of view. If you fall and break a leg up some remote mountain the likelihood is you will never be found; if you have someone with you they can get help. Also, I don't mind collecting on my own, but I'd get bored to tears in the evenings without anyone to talk to over a beer and discuss the day's catch. Bob
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Post by jonathan on Dec 24, 2013 4:32:20 GMT -8
That's the beauty of our world. We have 2 individuals lucanidae25 & bobw who have the same hobby but each one likes to enjoy it in a different way. Both situations have their pros and cons. Overall I would slightly shift towards collecting alone rather with someone else.
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