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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 3, 2012 13:42:24 GMT -8
Right Calodema rubrimarginata and left Metaxymorpha gloriosa both are from tropical rainforests of far northern QLD. When one sp of insect is mimicing another sp, the mimicing sp normally is gaining protection of safety from the mimic models. This is all part of the gloriosa mimicing group. Are they trying to gain safety in numbers by mimicing one another? Attachments:
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 3, 2012 13:47:43 GMT -8
Right Castiarina rollei and left Castiarina erubescens both are from tropical rainforests of far northern QLD. All part of the gloriosa mimicing group and feeding on the same tree. Same overlaps anothers are not. Attachments:
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 3, 2012 13:58:02 GMT -8
Right Metaxymorpha immitator and left Metaxymorpha greyi both are from subtropical rainforests of northern NSW and southern QLD. Another example of another mimicing group. There is also a Castiarina rayclarkei is mimicing Calodema regale in the same areas in northern NSW and Southern QLD but I still haven't found it yet. That's so rare only a few specimens were ever found one year on one tree. Attachments:
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 3, 2012 14:01:30 GMT -8
Right Metaxymorpha meeki and left Castiarina meeki both are from the tropical rainforests of PNG. Same thing is happening in PNG. The Heliconius butterfly dose the same thing in South America. Attachments:
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Post by nosorog on Mar 3, 2012 21:15:58 GMT -8
Aren't these _related_ species/genera? Why do you use word "mimicking"?
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 4, 2012 4:52:00 GMT -8
Related species/genera dosen't mean they will look the same, they are doing this for a reason. Well what is the advantage of looking so similar? What do they gain out of it? One sp must be trying to look like another sp to gain safety. This is how mimic works. I think it's safety in numbers, so predators don't pick them off one by one. They are all sp in small numbers but predators only choose all the one looks different and leaving the similar looking one behind.
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Post by jackblack on Mar 8, 2012 3:20:21 GMT -8
Rashduo, these are different Genera , Lucanidae who says this is gloriosa group , how do you know who is mimicking who ?Who says this is gloriosa group ?
Just because Metaxymorpha gloriosa was discovered before Calodema rubrimarginatum doesn`t mean it is the sp all the others mimick .Maybe they mimick C.rubrimarginatum who can say ?Or do they mimick Castiarina rollei.
I collected the Type specimen of Calodema rubrimaginatum , so who is to say which species mimicks which ?? There are other Castiarina which have these colours , I think these are just warning colours bright colours that wasps also display.Many Australian Buprestids have a basic colour of yellow to start with.
Calodema rubrimaginatum has a very limited distribrution due to its host plant around the Julaten area , Metaxymoprpha gloriosa`s host plant I also discovered Goia lasionura it has a wide distribution like the species.As for Castiarina clarki go to its distribution area and hang a red bucket up in the canopy and you might be surprised .I shared this collection tecnique with the guy C.clarki was named after many years ago , when I asked the collector of C.clarki did you ever collect any Buprestidae with this type of bucket trap trap I told you about , he said no I caught no Buprestids , very funny statment , several weeks later a couple of beetle collectors came along the road of the border ranges in NSW and here was the collector of C.clarki pulling up red buckets into the canopy of the rainforest on a string , yet he anounces he collected no Buprestids like this ,all of a sudden Metaxymorpha imitator is discovered and many collectors around the world have it .The colour red is a great attractant the the Metatxymorpha and Calodema group also Castiarina rollei and C.erubescens.I think many species are yet to be discovered using red lures to attract them Calodema plebeia is also attracted to the colour red , yet it mimicks none of the above species .Before we can make too many profound statements on Buprestidids mimicking each other more research needs to be done.
A bit more thought needs to be put into some comments presented some times by collectors that haven`t even collected the specis they comment about.
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 8, 2012 6:08:57 GMT -8
All I'm saying is this is not a accident they look alike, Castiarina is the best mimicry genus in Australia. Castiarina is always the one mimicking others like Lycids, Cantharidae, Meloidae etc..... I can give you as many examples as you want to demonstrate Castiarina is the mimicking one, so Metaxymorpha gloriosa and Calodema rubrimaginatum can't be the one mimicking Castiarina rollei. Since Metaxymorpha gloriosa is the most common sp, it will make more sense for other sp to mimic gloriosa.
There is also a supper rare Temognatha sp is mimicking Metaxymorpha immitator and Metaxymorpha greyi. The outermost aim of mimicry is to gain protection of safety from another sp and poisonous mimicry isn't the only kind of mimicry.
The bucket trap only works if you live near the area. The female still needs to collect on flowers.
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Post by nosorog on Mar 8, 2012 8:32:32 GMT -8
I think till you find a reason for mimicking or better definitive proof (poison; a count on the number of beetles eaten; how well it can be spotted in the surrounding) one should be careful stating that "mimicking' happens. Simply looking like other beetle who is not protected in some way from predators doesn't count.
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Post by wildabug on Mar 8, 2012 11:56:18 GMT -8
One question, where did you get that Calodema rubrimarginata?!!!!
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 8, 2012 13:35:33 GMT -8
There're two pages just on Lycid mimics Castiarina from " Castiarina Australia's richest jewel beetle genus" by Shelley Barker. So Castiarina can only be the mimicking one and not the other way around. I noted something is going on here from my years of collocting in the fields, I didn't just jump to conclusion by looking at them. This is my area of interests and there for I spend more time thinking on this subject than most other people. Another perfect example is how the Doliops is mimicking Pachyrrhynchus in Philippines. I don't think Pachyrrhynchus is poisonous, so what dose the Doliops gain from mimicking Pachyrrhynchus? I spent a lot of time thinking about it and the only conclusion is the one that is doing the mimicking is trying to gain protection of safety in numbers from another more common sp. The ratio with Doliops to Pachyrrhynchus is between 1:50 to 1:200 depending on the sp. So Doliops is the one gaining by mimicking Pachyrrhynchus. Calodema rubrimarginata is only from a very small area calls Rex Ranges in far northern QLD. Attachments:
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 8, 2012 13:37:40 GMT -8
Another page of Lycid mimics Castiarina. Attachments:
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Post by timsbugs on Mar 8, 2012 16:13:37 GMT -8
Try eating a Pachyrrhynchus weevil, or if your not that brave, just try stick a pin in one.
You will quickly find, that because of their fused and very thick elytra that they are very hard to chew, or puncture!
Doliops on the other hand are very soft in comparison, so it make a lot of sense to mimic the weevil and coexist.
IMHO Tim
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Post by lucanidae25 on Mar 8, 2012 16:51:13 GMT -8
Just goes to show there're other reasons other than poisonous mimicry.  |
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Post by timsbugs on Mar 8, 2012 17:36:17 GMT -8
My latest example. Collected together, same location. P. argus / Doliops Tim Attachments:
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