calling all papilio experts

[Deleted]

bought this female on sunday for the grand total of £1, which female is it?

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[wollastoni]

Any data ?

[thanos]

I think Atrophaneura aristolochiae. Common species,but not bad for 1 GBP .

[Deleted]

just says Phillipines 2002, I think it could be a female mariae?

[thanos]

Oh,excuse me, more accurate genus here is 'Pachliopta' ,not 'Atrophaneura'. My ID above was very fast. It's not P.aristolochiae. As you said also Philippines, check this site: swallowtails.net/

It is one of these,in my opinion : mariae or leyteyensis, but I'd support more P.leyteyensis,cause the shape of the hindwing white patch and red dots match more than mariae to me. Both common species. If is from S.Leyte island,is leyteyensis. The shape of the white hindwing patch is variable in both species,which causes confusion and makes the ID difficult. I'll wait Adam's opinion.

[wingedwishes]

You are far and away more experienced than myself but I can say you are right about it not being aristolochiae as it apears very different than my males or females of that species.

[Deleted]

yes I agree it does look more like leyteyensis than mariae, thanks Thanos.

still not bad for £1

[thanos]

Dunc, I examined as well as I could these 2 very similar species, and am more with leyteyensis, but,as I said above, they are variable,so I'm not 100% sure - please wait for Adam's opinion,as he is more experienced than me in Papilionids.

Thanos

[hewi]

After Plate 63 No. 2 of Tsukuda & Nishiyama, Butterflies of the South East Asian Islands, it must be the female of Pachliopta phegeus.

Manfred

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[Deleted]

if it is a female phegeus then it was quite a find, only by accident though.

[thanos]

Indeed the female of phegeus of this plate looks identical to the specimen of Dunc. But, phegeus maybe a synonym of leyteyensis(leytensis),according also to the site : swallowtails.net/ ,

where is written for leytensis :

Confined to the South Leyte island, where it is common. P. phegeus (Hopffer, 1886) may be a synonym, and occurs on Samar, Panoan, Mindanao, Dinagat, and Cebu as well as N Leyte. If the two are conspecific, the name phegeus takes precedence.

What's your opinion,Manfred, are these 2 synonyms, or different species ?

[hewi]

I d'ont have any suggestion about the specific status of phegeus and leytensis myself.
Tsukuda & Nishiyama treat them as distinct species and give 4 reasons to do so. The first strikes me as particularly.
They wrote: "At Catmon, S. Leyte, both phegeus and leytensis occur at the same time and place. In other words neither of them is a seasonal form or a geographically isolated subspecies."

It would be very interesting to know Adam's opinion.

It is obviously that, if they are conspecific, phegeus HOPPFER, 1886 has priority over leytensis MURAYAMA, 1978.

Manfred

[thanos]

Thank you ,Manfred. Any genitalial difference,or DNA evidence ? Let's see also Adam's opinion.

About the geographically isolated subspecies: I know habitats here in Greece, where both of these(considered) subspecies of Lucanus cervus occur (even on the same trees) : ssp.cervus(4 parts in antennal club) and ssp.turcicus(6 parts) at the same time, and have collected there many intermediate specimens(with 5 parts).

[Adam Cotton]

It seems to be a female of Pachliopta leytensis, but a photo of the underside would help to clarify it.

The name phegeus Höpffer, 1865 is a junior homonym and thus unavailable. Koçak, 1983 replaced phegeus with buraki, but that is a junior synonym of leytensis, as the two are just forms of the same species according to current opinion. It would be interesting to do some breeding experiments, but eventually the DNA of these will be looked at, and that should give some more conclusive answers.

Adam.

[Deleted]

Thanks Adam, I will photograph the underside tomorrow.