Why do people only ship into US?

[simosg]

Why do people living in US very often only ship into US? There are a lot of interesting offers in the classifieds which I can't order due to this.

Hannes

[dertodesking]

Jun 24, 2011 12:23:16 GMT -8 simosg said:

Why do people living in US very often only ship into US? There are a lot of interesting offers in the classifieds which I can't order due to this.

Hannes

Hi Hannes,

I think it's down to the excessive paperwork that needs to be completed and expensive fees required for permits to ensure that any such shipments are legal.

Like you I've seen offers from the US that I'd like to investigate but sellers often state "US only". I've had some success getting some of the "smaller" dealers (collectors who deal/trade on a part-time basis) to do deals but have found others say that's it's just not worth their time trying to get permints to deal internationally

Luckily, there are plenty of European dealers who have some good US material...

Simon

[nomihoudai]

It costs like 75 $ to get it legally out if I understood correctly, and some paperwork, most people dislike the paperwork.

[Deleted]

I used to be a licensed Importer/Exporter with the USFW. I won't even consider an I/E License any longer since the new rules and fees went into effect...thus my commercial I/E days are over.

Note: Both A. and B. below can happen only after an annual $100 Commercial License fee is paid.

Scenario A.

for a box of a dozen nymphalids, a few papilios, pierids, beetles, and moths, one will have to
PAY---
$91 for Inspection(3-177)
$25 for shipping to get it inspected/returned
$30-50 for Broker's fee if appl.
========
$156
--------------------------------------------------------

Scenario B.

for one measly O. priamus poseidon male, one will have to
PAY---
$91 for Inspection (3-177)
$25 for shipping to get it inspected/returned
$74 for a CITES determination Premium Fee(with 3-177)
$30-50 for Broker's fee if appl.
======
$230

Now one can fully understand why I/E.......legally....... into and out of the USA is a royal pain in the %#$. For purposes of keeping my blood pressure down, I will refrain from further comment

[lordpandarus]

Are you sure these export fees still apply to shipping to Canada?

This is the Ianni shipping policy, he doesn't seem to charge the 55$ to Canadians anymore. Of all people he should know

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shipping Specimens to Canada

Shipping and handling charges are $12.00 plus or minus
For the safety of your shipment, orders are shipped by U.S. Postal Registered Airmail.
Please allow 7 to 14 days for delivery.
All orders are double-boxed for safety in transit.


No CITES species shipped out side of the USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shipping Specimens Outside USA & Canada

Shipping and handling charges are $15.00 plus or minus
For the safety of your shipment, orders are shipped by U.S. Postal Registered Airmail.
Please allow 14 to 21 days for delivery.
All orders are double-boxed for safety in transit.

Mandatory $55.00 Export Document Fee.
The U.S. Wildlife Service and international regulations govern export of insect specimens.
Each shipment requires a mandatory export declaration. To defer the cost of multiple exports,
we suggest you have us accumulate shipments until the overall value exceeds $300.
In this way, you will be charged a single shipment fee of $55.
Paid orders can be reserved indefinitely.

No CITES species shipped out side of the USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ianni Butterfly Enterprises

Also , I have bought several specimens on ebay from the US in the past few years and they were shipped with no problems

[Deleted]

I don't know what to say about Mr. Ianni's data. I do know that from the actual USFW website, Canada is to be (I or E) with the usual inspections since Canada is outside the jurisdiction of the USA.
The $55 fee is outdated as I see it. Currently it is $91 and due to go up again in 2012.
The following excerpt is from the USFW website. www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/2011SampleFeeAssessments.pdf
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement
Sample Fee Assessments for 2011
This factsheet provides a number of examples showing how inspection fees will be calculated for different types of shipments during 2011. (All fees increase each year through 2012.)
Commercial Shipments
•
A company imports a shipment of beaver furs from Canada at the non-designated staffed port of Denver. The company must pay a base fee of $142.
•
A company exports a shipment of U.S. ranch-raised bison meat to Canada via the border port of Dunseith, North Dakota. The company will pay a $91 base inspection fee for this shipment since Dunseith functions as a designated port for wildlife consisting of non-protected North American species moving between Canada and the United States.
I know these are not insects, but there were several examples of insects, but not from Canada.

www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/3-177-1.pdf This is the website for the 3-177 Form. The form clearly has spots for locations foreign or outside the USA.

www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/3-177instructions022011.pdf
Here, the Instructions for Filing a 3-177include 14.b where one is to list the country of the Foreign Importer or Foreign Exporter. The Code for Canada is CA and this list has Canada listed among a hundred others.

www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/CommWildlifeImportExport.htm
Here, Answers are provided as to I/E.
How do you define import?
Any wildlife introduced or brought into, or landed on, any place under U.S. jurisdiction is an import.

How do you define export?
Any wildlife that departs, is sent, or shipped from, is carried out of, or is consigned to a carrier from a place under U.S. jurisdiction with a destination outside of the United States is an export.

I could go on, but am frankly rather tired. I have stated this before and will abide by it. If others elect not to, then so be it.
This is a sticky, tangled, crappy situation we find ourselves in, but doing wrong is bound to be trouble for those who do. That is why I stopped my commercial importing. If I could do it like in the old days, I would. Those days are gone (my importing for reasonable fees and decent inspectors) and so also is a decent chunk of revenue for them.....gone. The USFW has lost thousands of dollars of revenue from me and several other people I know who did not renew their Licenses and who agree with my assessment.

Suggestion---call a Regional Office and ask whether Canada is to be treated as a 3-177 country. Unfortunately, many inspectors themselves have it wrong....and that is both a shame and risky for the poor goon who gets such wrong information.

Respectfully,

[simosg]

OK, I see the problems with exporting.

Hannes

[nomihoudai]

I have to change my comment:

It costs like 250$ + shipping to get it legally out if I understood correctly, and some paperwork, most people dislike the 250$ that are good for nothing.

[africaone]

strange to see that the kingdom of trading applies such taxes, especially for exporting !
There is something wrong !

[ckswank]

Aside from the high fees & paperwork, if a person is caught importing or exporting without the permits, they can confiscate your entire inventory and/or collection which is what happened a few years back to the company out in Ft. Davis, Texas. I think they only found a few specimens that could not be documented, but they had to forfeit much of their inventory. Besides a fine, you also run a risk of jail time, depending on how much illegal importing/exporting was done. Just not worth it to me & a great many who collect here in the US.

Charlie

[nomihoudai]

May I "steal" this topic and ask another question, do you have to do the same paperwork and pay the same taxes when you come as foreigner into the USA, collect there and take your specimen with you out of the country in the airplane when traveling back ? I will finish my studies in about 1,5 year and I wanted to do a travel for as long as possible trough the US.

Thx for any replies

[ckswank]

Claude - Very good question. Hope someone can answer it. I would like to know as well. Logically, if you collected them personally and declared them at customs, had a list of what you have, & are not for commercial use, it seems like it should be OK. However, laws are not usually logical!

Charlie

[wolf]

When i came back from Peru, we landed in New York before going over to Europe again. I had collected stuff in Peru, and i had x'ed off for insects on the little card they give you before you land.

The officer saw the x, and asked if i had insects with me, and i answered yes, i got butterflies with me. Then he asked if they were alive or dead, and i said dead and dried. And he answered it was ok, and we were through.

This was NOT a connecting flight, which ment that i could've left the airport and gone into the US. I didn't have to show any papers or anything, not even the specimens.

EDIT: When leaving New York again, we didn't get any questions about export matter.

[Adam Cotton]

An American friend told me that hand carried dead butterflies for "personal use" do not need an export permit. I think it would be no problem collecting in the US and then putting a box of specimens in your luggage.

Adam.

[nomihoudai]

Ok thanks for the reply ! I hope they will also bee fine with a luggage full of insects and just a box of personal stuff then As far as I have seen the usual VISA is 3 weeks, but I intended to stay something like 2 or 3 months, will have to find a way how to do that.