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Post by saturniidave on Jun 7, 2011 11:54:12 GMT -8
Friends of mine use dog or human crap. Put it in a plastic bag and leave to 'ripen' in the sun for a few days, then deposit on the ground (at arms length!). Some of my friends say it works every time. Never had teh guts to try it myself!
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 7, 2011 14:28:17 GMT -8
1. I confirm that in previous years, I'm seeing (here in Upper Normandy) the Apatura towards the end of June. They continue to fly during the first weeks of July. This year 2011, all reports indicate, for the environs of Paris, a rise in the middle of May. As with many other species (eg. Limenitis camilla, Melanargia galathea, etc..) Lepidopteran season in Northern Europe (it's very different in the South of France, Corsica , Greece, etc.. began at least fifteen days early. We had a warm spring and very dry. Apart from the fact that drought is a disaster for agriculture, it may now reduce the number of butterflies fault plants and flowers. 2. Our Association (Lepidopterists de France) is liable jointly with the National Museum of Natural History, in a time tracking program Lepidoptera (STERF). All current information (for central and northern France) emphasize the unusual abundance of both Apatura this year! About the STERF program : www.lepido-france.fr/category/STERF/3. Indeed, human or canine faeces strongly attract Apatura! (and in neotropical area : Agrias!) 4. Starting tomorrow, I'll go visit my Apatura corners. I am willing to shoot (if I succeed! I think I have forgotten my traps in Paris and the butterflies are flying fast) for "maliciousinchworm. If I understand correctly, I should not slay them by using cyanide but by pinching the thorax? If successful, I will inform "maliciousinchworm" by mail. Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Jun 7, 2011 14:42:23 GMT -8
I have observed/collected hundreds of Apatura (iris,ilia clytie,and metis) here,during many years. Dungs(I've collected some on dungs,including a very rare aberrant male on a bear's last summer) and carnivore excrement,cheese,sweat,even petroleum spirit,fish,dead animals(e.g. a snake etc),rotten fruits etc can help,but having collected so many specimens myself,I have to say that the 'natural baits' are the best ..! I mean the wet parts of the forest road next to the habitat,or rocks on the sides of the forest road..Apaturas readily suck minerals from there. If you know their habitats(the best spots) in your country(here the best spot for A.ilia clytie is a Salix forest around a lake in N.Greece - I will be there tomorrow for them - there and at a certain forest path,I have collected almost all my A.ilia,without putting any artificial trap). Of course you have to know the exact time in their flight period to go for them so to meet many and fresh specimens,and this info is gained after some personal field trips.Here,A.ilia has 2 generations and in normal years the best date for the males is late may and for the females early june.Second generation in july-august. A.iris on a mountain of N.Greece is very common if you go there in early july and you need absolutely no artificial bait - I see/collect each summer there many males on the forest road and on the rocks on the sides:in these natural baits . It's important also to know that Apatura fly at their best in the hottest hours of the day (12-4 in the noon). So,suitable habitat,timing(best days in the flight period for males and females),special weather conditions(a hot day,but with a forest road with some wet parts,due to a rain in the previous days) and the combination of these will bring the best collecting results.You can use for example a cheese bait,putting it on a sunny spot on the forest road inside the Salix habitat,but you can catch many specimens without it with the 'natural baits' that I mention above,if you have achieved the combination of the above parameters.Plus I'd say that if you know where and when to go,the artificial traps are nearly useless: I once put traps of cheese and of rotten fruits at the habitat of A.iris,in a perfect,hot day,with a wet forest road,and they gave me only about 5 specimens more,added to the about 30+ specimens(having seen maybe 100?! or more) that I had collected on the wet road or on the rocks on the sides within a few hours in the noon. Thanos
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 7, 2011 14:44:35 GMT -8
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 7, 2011 14:48:15 GMT -8
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 7, 2011 14:49:33 GMT -8
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Post by thanos on Jun 7, 2011 14:53:42 GMT -8
Great pictures,Jean-Marc !
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 7, 2011 15:09:01 GMT -8
Here Apatura ilia with Mimathyma schrenkii (Ussuri area). I generally agree with Thanos: a) it is important to know the good spots! b) Apatura iris and A. ilia rob the hottest hours. Then they like to land on a carrier sunny and warm (eg the south wall of the ranger's house in the Forest of Châtillon in Burgundy). c) If within that right corner there is a moist, even better! d) The vast majority of Apatura ilia I saw in Yunnan (and they were very, very many) were near Willows ( Salix). And territorial males were fixed halfway up on the branches of willows to wait for the females and / or repel other males. Where I am in Normandy, Apatura are in forests (especially oak). That said, in France, these butterflies are much less common than in China, in Greece or Ussuri. Traps and bait can help (even if 90% of my collection of individuals were caught with nets, sometimes close to natural bait: dog excrement). Once, in Burgundy (near Semur-en-Auxois), I caught an A. iris female who was alone on an isolated bush among cow meadows, a little bit far from the forest.
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Post by thanos on Jun 7, 2011 19:51:04 GMT -8
Here the best habitat of A.iris is a mixed forest,where all these occur : of course Salix(the main larval foodplant),Populus,coniferous(Pinus),Betula pendula,Quercus(at a bit lower altitude),etc.. While the best habitat of A.ilia here is a Salix forest.A.metis also always near Salix at streams or rivers. In a few time I will leave for N.Greece for A.ilia f.clytie - hope the weather will be good ! I'm running to be prepared for the trip ! Jean-Marc,I read above that today you will also collect Apatura there,so have a nice time with these magnificent leps and good luck to you,too ! Telling our results soon after our returns ! You have an extremely early year in France,so I think you will be able to see A.iris today(so early!).But here we have the opposite(a late year for the emergence of the species).. I hope the A.ilia will have emerged(they must have,cause in normal years this is the best date for females,and cause the last days we have hot weather here). Cheers, Thanos
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Post by maliciousinchworm on Jun 7, 2011 22:27:13 GMT -8
@ Jean-Marc
Thanks for your help, and sorry for my mistake, I wrote Jean-Paul instead of your real name, I had the dilemma yesterday night when I went bed (I usually check all things I did in the day and what I´ll be doing next day, it´s horrible I take too much time to fell asleep, hahaha). Well I fixed the problem, hope you don´t feel offended.
Pinching the thorax is a good choice, I do sacrify them that way.
I am reading very interesting data in this post, and I will share some of my experiences regarding suitable habitats. I´ve mainly worked with this species in Galicia and Madrid (Spain). Every specimen I have found myself has been near to a river or stream, I assume they are linked to riverside trees (Fraxinus, Alnus,... anybody has any proposal?) in my region, where Salix appears mainly in boglands and plain wet areas (no Apatura sp. there), I´ve been told of a population living in an ancient oak forest, been there once when I was a child but did not found none, so I can´t give an opinion on that. In Madrid I bet they feed on Salix sp., they can be found in numbers (never common in any case) in the mountain streams where they reach the wide valley of Lozoya river (the vegetation here is integrated by Salix, Alnus, Fraxinus, Sorbus,...), but specimens may reach nearby oak forest. The first specimen I collected in Spain was indeed in a pine tree forest, but once again there was a river where some Salix trees were growing.
And about the right season, I can find fresh example in the first half of July (never found any earlier), but you can still see adults in mid August (in fact some of my books on Spanish regional lepidoptera says July-September as flying time).
The specimens I´ve found naturally mudding where in animal droppings or humid soil, but I also seen specimens just standing in th asphalt of a mountain road. They prefer early in the morning for such activities, when the heat increases males fight each other for the territory and they seldom come down to the soil level, females prefer to rest on the ramches, usually under enough the tree top to collect them with a net.
Regards,
Alejandro A.
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Post by bobw on Jun 8, 2011 2:23:19 GMT -8
I've never heard of A. ilia feeding on Salix (unlike A. iris which is a Salix feeder). All the populations I know of feed on Populus, including ssp. barcina in NE Spain.
Bob
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Post by nomihoudai on Jun 8, 2011 2:51:03 GMT -8
German Wikipedia lists these, but I don't know their source, nor how reliable they are:
Populus tremula Populus alba Populus nigra Populus x canadensis Populus x gileadensis Salix caprea
Outside of Central Europe
Salix alba Salix atrocinerea (North of Spain)
I think I still would go for the shrimps + Salt bait ( just to try the salt once) and maybe urin.
Unfortunately the weather is bad now and I don't know if it will be worth getting back to my country this weekend due to this. It is a three hours drive from where I am now to the spot they got reported.
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 8, 2011 15:24:00 GMT -8
"I've never heard of A. ilia feeding on Salix" Please, tell me what kind of tree on this picture showing the eastern gate of the old village of Shaxi (Yunnan) ? Attachments:
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Post by lepidofrance on Jun 8, 2011 15:30:06 GMT -8
Please, tell me what is the tree which stands on this Apatura ilia? This is one of the trees planted in front of the east gate of the village of Shaxi. All went along these walls and gardens, was adorned with the same trees around which flew many Apatura ilia ... Anyway, I did not write that larvae of Apatura ilia fed on willows. I merely stated that the imagos attended the willows! Attachments:
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Post by thanos on Jun 8, 2011 15:58:48 GMT -8
Of course A.ilia larvae take both Salix and Populus. bobw ---> Check Tom Tolman's book for the European Rhopalocera to see mentioned there that Salix alba is very oftenly the foodplant of this species . The best habitat of A.ilia here is a Salix forest (with few Populus) and all specimens I have collected were cought inside the Salix forest(on the forest paths or onto the Salix trees -maybe never on a Populus). I'm just back from my trip to N.Greece(I was at this Salix forest) for A.ilia f.clytie. I'm quite tired(3 hours road to reach it,very hot and moist conditions and without sleeping..).The weather was very good and the conditions suitable! But I saw only a few specimens this time,cause of this extraordinary late year for Greece(as I mentioned above). All the few specimens I saw(about 10 males and 2 females) were all very freshly emerged and were flying so fastly (and rarely were staying on the forest path)that was really difficult to catch. So,the flight period has just started there for the first generation,while in normal years on this date it goes to the end. Also,due to the really many rains there in winter,the waters of the lake had covered a large part of the forest path at the best spot of A.ilia there ! Anyway,I managed to collect only 2 but perfect,super fresh,beautiful males!And I lost a nice big yellow female..Also,caught a few fresh Araschnia levana of second generation(f.prorsa) - a very local species here. Next week will fly much more A.ilia specimens there(a really late year for Greece)! Thanos
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