|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 5, 2022 5:54:17 GMT -8
C. nupta is the commonest Cat throughout Europe, and indeed Asia. C. promissa is less common, but still easy enough to find.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 5, 2022 6:42:08 GMT -8
Hewi, Are those two C nivea from Japan or from the mainland of Asia? Do you know if the two areas have distinct forms of nivea? I recall seeing a Tibetan example with much paler fw. My Japanese nivea is very like the two you illustrated. John Hyatt Excuse the poor photo but here is a comparison of some nivea. The left-hand column are from Tibet, the centre ones from Primorye, far-east Russia and the right-hand column from Japan. I can't see much difference.  |
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 5, 2022 6:43:50 GMT -8
Hewi, could we see a better picture of that C. nivea ? I believe that one is the largest species of the genus overseas. But, then perhaps large examples of C. fraxini rival it. They probably get a bit bigger. Here is my largest specimen of each:  |
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 5, 2022 6:51:05 GMT -8
Yes, I think unijuga is pretty close, but the FW subreniform spot is open to the PM line and the FW fringe black slit blotches are thin/sparse w meskei. Unijuga has a closed FW subreniform spot and heavier FW fringe black slit blotches. Also, the HW black band is thicker and nearly to the anal fold w unijuga and more tapered at the anal fold w meskei. To be honest, I, too, considered unijuga for a bit. I'd agree with unijuga. There's no scale on the photo but unijuga is generally quite a bit bigger than meskei. |
|
|
|
Post by trehopr1 on Mar 5, 2022 11:25:33 GMT -8
Thank you for the comparison photo bobw !
Outstanding series of C. nivea which you have. That is such a strikingly unique catocala species with those subtle yellow hindwings.
We have nothing comparable here in the states in color or size however, our medium sized C. illecta does have hindwings of a darker yellow / orange shade.
You know the very first (and only) singular specimen which I have ever seen here in the U.S. was in the collection of Hermann Strecker (pre 1900). I have a picture of it somewhere and I do recall it having a label with Japan for a locality.
|
|
|
|
Post by rayrard on Mar 5, 2022 11:46:26 GMT -8
I'd say unijuga, but darker than usual. The white zigzag ST line is usually more obvious in unijuga while it is harder to see in meskei. The HW band is also obviously thicker in unijuga and this looks like that. I cannot tell semirelicta apart from either of these sometimes except for when the semirelicta is very pale and contrasty, but range alone is enough to exclude semirelicta.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by trehopr1 on Mar 6, 2022 1:06:26 GMT -8
Here is an underside view of my specimen which was requested by mothman55. I've also placed a ruler beneath it for scale which bobw mentioned. It measures in at 80mm (tip to tip). So far I have 3 votes for unijuga and 1 vote for meskei. I REALLY appreciate everyone's opinion on this specimen !  |
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 6, 2022 2:46:30 GMT -8
Almost certainly unijuga. 80mm is typical for unijuga and they can get quite a bit bigger. C. meskei is typically about 65mm, and I've never seen one reach 70.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobw on Mar 6, 2022 3:48:09 GMT -8
Typical pairs for comparison: left - unijuga from Quebec, right meskei from Saskatchewan.  |
|
|
|
Post by jhyatt on Mar 6, 2022 7:53:04 GMT -8
Hewi, Are those two C nivea from Japan or from the mainland of Asia? Do you know if the two areas have distinct forms of nivea? I recall seeing a Tibetan example with much paler fw. My Japanese nivea is very like the two you illustrated. John Hyatt Excuse the poor photo but here is a comparison of some nivea. The left-hand column are from Tibet, the centre ones from Primorye, far-east Russia and the right-hand column from Japan. I can't see much difference. Nor can I, Bob. Thanks for the nice comparison. jh |
|
|
|
Post by mothman55 on Mar 6, 2022 10:55:47 GMT -8
That photo of the underside confirms it for me as unijuga. The discal lunule is prominent, whereby on meskie it would be faint or non-existent.
|
|
