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Post by rayrard on Aug 31, 2020 12:51:16 GMT -8
Intelligent design people like to cherry pick examples of "design" while ignoring that this streaked pattern and textured horn is widespread on dozens of species of sphinx moths and varies in intensity and color. As many have said, these hawk-moths don't just feed on cannabis so weren't designed for cannabis. Sphinx larvae can vary in their degree of camouflage. Sometimes you see them on plants where the white streaks seem non-camouflaged. Sometimes young instar caterpillars have bumps and they lose the bumps with age. Pandorus caterpillars have threads like grapevines which disappear when the larvae gets large. The fact this morphology is so widespread and variable in sphinx seems a better example of descent with modification (common ancestry or evolution), than any "design" unless you hold to God designing by evolution.
But that theological discussion is offtopic!
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Post by rayrard on Aug 31, 2020 11:09:54 GMT -8
The next 3 photo's I post are three rather distinct looking (black) Catocala. Now, there are truly some distinct black species one really cannot mistake for anything else. However, there are some "puzzlers" like these which I cannot quite place an accurate determination on. Anyone with any ideas or proposals or just plain certainty; please reply... Photo A: This one has the unmistakable dark fringe at the outer edges of the hind wings. My best idea here is Catocala residua ? Photo A: 100% residua with black fringe Photo B: the unmarked angusi form... insolabilis is more mottled and ulalume has a white fringe Photo C: possibly a very heavily marked flebilis. Also close to a typical dark angusi, but the reniform is clearly brown and large while angusi has a smaller gray reniform. It does look larger than typical flebilis from comparison with the palaeogama? to the left
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Post by rayrard on Aug 31, 2020 11:04:44 GMT -8
THANK YOU very much indeed rayrard for your species confirmations of my posted photo's ! My sincere respect for being mentored by Larry Gall himself. You have mentioned in the past that you have collected Catocala with him numerous times so, it seems you are THE go to guy for Catocala on this forum. I will post a few more pic's of some questionable specimens so, hopefully your well rounded knowledge/experience of these moths will assist with these tough ones (for me) that I have. I met Larry Gall twice. Very pleasant and helpful in every way. Met him in the early 1990's in Chicago whilst working at Field Museum as a Technical Assistant (Div. of Insects). He visited our Division to look over the Hermann Strecker (types) of Catocala. Within a year or so a printed bulletin of his confirmations/investigation was printed. I have a copy somewhere on my book shelves. Also, met him a second time at a big Lep. Soc. meeting in Eureka Ill. but, I've forgotten what year that was. I still make errors, especially from pictures of live specimens on iNaturalist. Bob Borth is a colleague of Larry's and me and him are the main Catocala people on iNat. I have issues with subnata vs neogama, determining semirelicta, and retecta/luctuosa. Also the orange species in the west and mountains are tough.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 30, 2020 15:47:23 GMT -8
Well, this is indeed a good example of the dilemma I come across with 3-4 of these large salmon colored species. Your specimens Tim look just like some which I have as well. I had one collector say o'h that's C. meiskei and yet another collector said on another occasion o'h that's C. junctura. Then someone else will likely come along and say o'h that's C. unijuga. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone really knows how to tell these apart except the noted expert Larry Gall. I work 20 feet from Larry so I'm learning
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Post by rayrard on Aug 30, 2020 15:45:28 GMT -8
Now I think that is an EXCELLENT general guide for discerning these 4 species which I brought up. It is well thought out and covers the subtleties present between the species. I think you really "nailed it" Bill and I am sure it will serve many who (like me) have found these species at times perplexing ! So, it looks to me like my 2nd photograph and 3rd photograph (series) appear to all be C. junctura Is this correct in your opinion Billg ? What about #1 photo (the pink one). Also another C. junctura ? THANK YOU also Bill for confirming that C. insolabilis !! **Wondering if maybe we should have a thread dedicated to "Catocala I.D's". Folks could post their (undet.) specimen pic's and members could give their opinions. That way this thread could remain just for Catocala field reports 2020. Maybe Adam could do this for us... The hindwing bands all look like junctura. I have noted meskei from the northeast are noticeably less mottled than unijuga but are very close. The white ST squiggly line is MUCH more apparent in unijuga while in meskei it blends in especially at a distance. The hindwing band is thicker in unijuga with the orange area being thinner than the median band. In meskei the orange is more expansive and is thicker than the black median band. The shape of the median bands is a little different. I have found unijuga and meskei to be very close in size and color. I have never collected junctura but that species never is found in the northeast. Separating semirelicta from unijuga/meskei is hard and I don't know how to separate gray semirelicta from the other two. It doesn't help that I've never seen semirelicta either
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Post by rayrard on Aug 30, 2020 15:37:20 GMT -8
With some great assistance (technical advice) from mothman27 (regarding the posting of pictures); I am now able to show some of my goods and pose any related questions regarding them. *So, a big THANK YOU Tim (mothman27) for your wise advise ! Below, is a picture of two Catocala which I would like some candid (Identifications/opinions) about. I was told by one collector the top one is C. meiskei; however, yet another collector said it looked more to him like C. junctura So, which species is this one ? Also, the bottom dark specimen was said to be C. insolabilis; is this one a correct I.D. ? Any differing opinions ? Without looking at other replies, I would say junctura for the orange one and certainly yes to insolabilis which is quite distinctive in size and color
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Post by rayrard on Aug 30, 2020 15:34:40 GMT -8
Since we are on the topic, perhaps you could offer an opinion on these. I initially though I had a meskei in my collection but I now think they are all junctura. Let me know if you would agree. The interesting thing is that they are all from different places. Also, as you can tell they are different sizes. Data: Top: Allen County, Indiana 2nd: Boulder County, Colorado, USA 3rd: Steuben County, Indiana, USA Bottom: LaSalle County, Illinois, USA And now for the daily report, I got one habilis and one maestosa today and a female Manduca sexta, all at the sheet, none in the traps. I think the MidWest ones are junctura but the Colorado one is faustina
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Post by rayrard on Aug 27, 2020 22:04:11 GMT -8
parta is very distinct as it has dark streaks on the wing that are lacking in the others
unijuga and meskei are easier to tell with HW shots as the median band is thinner in meskei, and the white "squiggle" on the distal FW is much more conspicuous in unijuga
junctura looks much more brown and gray rather than gray
What I have a tough time with is separating the darker and grayer eastern semirelicta from meskei/unijuga, but I've never collected semirelicta
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Post by rayrard on Aug 25, 2020 13:30:18 GMT -8
it's a melanic unijuga
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Post by rayrard on Aug 24, 2020 19:26:47 GMT -8
Could you just throw beetles in alcohol and then remove and pin? I've had Calosoma stench go away after drying.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 24, 2020 19:22:55 GMT -8
The white caterpillar could be Halysidota or could be a small Acronicta americana
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Post by rayrard on Aug 24, 2020 12:43:39 GMT -8
Saw amatrix last night at light to get to 39 species. Bait and light have been productive for Catocala lately but the new species have plateaued and it's a lot of the usual species now.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 15, 2020 21:52:49 GMT -8
amica lineella micronympha sordida praeclara similis ultronia serena dejecta ilia epione coccinata palaeogama maestosa nebulosa parta innubens neogama relicta connubialis residua concumbens grynea gracilis cerogama flebilis subnata habilis minuta antinympha andromedae muliercula As for 2 weeks later I added the following, including 2 species I've never collected in PA insolabilis - 1 tapping lacrymosa - 1 tapping obscura vidua retecta Up to 37 species finally saw a cara while baiting to get to 38 species. First good bait of the season after a few abysmal attempts with at most 1-2 Catocala. I had 4-5 vidua, 2-3 neogama, 1 palaeogama, 1 ilia, and 1 cara.
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Post by rayrard on Aug 15, 2020 15:02:30 GMT -8
Out of curiosity rayrard do you collect some of the more notable species whilst doing all this tree tapping? I can see making a "footnote" in one's field ledger of all the common place species but, others would have to get captured if possible... Do you have any pic's to show us of some of your Catocala collection or perhaps at least some of the more interesting species ? I can show pictures when the material is set. I collect what I can get tapping but the escape rate is sometimes high. I managed to get both the insolabilis and lacrymosa though. I think I have 55-60 Catocala species but a donated a chunk of specimens to the museum to free up some drawer space. I think I only have 4 boxes of Catocala with small series of even the commonest species. Most of the eastern species are easy with the exception of the small yellow ones in the blandula/mira/pretiosa/crataegi group. Th black ones are quite easy to tell apart unless you live in the overlap zone of retecta/luctuosa
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Post by rayrard on Aug 14, 2020 23:17:54 GMT -8
Tapping in PA over two days had good numbers of moths:
ilia - a few nebulosa - 3-4 neogama - common maestosa - common vidua - a few residua - 1-2 obscura - 3-4 lacrymosa - 1 insolabilis - 1 parta - 1 habilis - 1
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