Papilio memnon form? Or something totally different?

[joachim]

Hi there, I have what I think should be Papilio memnon which is from Vietnam, Mucangchai. Yenbai Prov. but I have no idea what form it is. So many forms.

I saw a picture of Adams collection but could noit identify this one.

So, any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Joachim

Attachments:

[Paul K]

It is P.memnon agenor f.agenor female
See my post on ICF
collector-secret.proboards.com/thread/656/southeastern-asian-butterflies?page=17

Paul

[Adam Cotton]

This seems to be a tailed form distantianus with the tails cut off (you can clearly see the cut base of the tail on the left side), but it should have a yellow abdomen with a black dorsal stripe. The antennae have clearly been glued on so I suspect that this probably has had a new abdomen glued on too, or there is a vague possibility that the abdomen has become completely discoloured.

Adam.

[Paul K]

Yes! After closer look indeed it looks like form distantianus.
It also doesn’t have white shade on the lower margin of forewings which is presented on form agenor.
Missing tails mislead me at my first look.
And as Adam mentioned the abdomen is also rather small for female of memnon.

[Adam Cotton]

I don't think the abdomen is very small, but it is drooping down. I assume it is a female abdomen, but it is hard to be absolutely certain.

Adam.

[joachim]

Hello, thanks all. Yes one antennae broke off while I made the foto ( need new glasses ) and have to fix it again.
The abdomen is relaxed but wasn´t cut off when I opened the paper bag.
However, it really seem the tails are cut off, maybe by the catcher. That´s the reason why the specimens was so cheap ! ( Haha ) But I didn´t realized that when I set the specimen. The wings are not so nice, but for just a dollar, okay.
Will make better fotos of the abdomen tomorrow.
Thanks all and have a good time
Joachim

[joachim]

Hello, okay I had a better look at the butterfly, the tails might be cut off by a bird or the cather. So we get ne supspecies (!?!?!?!=
I Germany we say sometimes one cannot see the forest because of too many trees standing around.

Okay here is a foto of the abdomen. For me it seems to be the original one.

Attachments:

[Adam Cotton]

I am sure the tails were cut off by the catcher, who didn't do a very good job of making both sides look the same. They probably broke off in his net, and almost certainly this is not the result of a bird attack.

I agree the abdomen must be the original one, it does have orange/yellow sides but it's very dark. The edges of the dorsal black stripe are visible, widening anteriorly on each segment. I can't really tell whether the dark colour on the sides of the anterior segments is due to dark scales or discolouration after death.

Adam.

[Paul K]

I am pretty sure the abdomen is discoloured due to grease/oil released from inside.

[joachim]

Thank you all for your help. New glasses for me are ordered. Haha

best wishes Joachim