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Post by mothman27 on Jul 4, 2018 6:46:42 GMT -8
Today I got one C. grynea and one C. ultronia.
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Post by mothman27 on Jul 4, 2018 6:51:32 GMT -8
I also have trouble with hundreds of flies in the trap after one day that ruin any butterflies quickly. And if they are not removed before nightfall the number of moths is lower or they are worn. How do you combat this? It is a pain to remove them all. Has anyone buit a small trapdoor on the top of the trap so as to let the flies out when needed?
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Post by mothman27 on Jul 4, 2018 6:55:53 GMT -8
I ran 20 traps last night, and had a real good night. My traps are all homemade, last count there were about 30 traps; I made a couple slotted pan type, but they take quite a bit more effort to build than a flat-bottom so most are the simple style flat-bottom. There are some advantages to both style traps, but I can crank out the flat style in about an hour per trap for very little cost, where as the slots alone take most of an hour to cut on the pan traps... What do you use as netting?
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Post by fishnbugz on Jul 4, 2018 11:42:43 GMT -8
Whatever I can find for netting, usually second-hand. I like netting such as dollar store laundry bags($1 each), I like those cloth "magnetic" door screens cut to size, lace curtains will work, I have some material from a couple old nylon screen tents that works OK but looks wrinkly. I could care less what it looks like as long as the bugs don't mind, I just want cheap and effective. I pull plywood out of the dump more often than not to build the bottom, and heavy copper or steel wire for the top frame. I don't mess with sewing nothing; hot glue is fast and simple, and cheap. Safety pins are often used too, and old curtains with white rubber on the window side are about my favorite material for top of the trap(white shows moths best).
Flies, I have sprayed "bug bomb" type spray on the upper and top sections of the trap and used these traps just to eliminate flies. I have found this type of spray to continue killing flies even the next season, they enter for the bait, go up and rest in the sprayed area of the trap, and they soon die and pile up in the bottom of the trap. I keep sprayed traps marked, enough rain will eventually wash out the poison but I don't like that for moths as they obviously either ruin themselves or get out when they drop and start doin' the kickin' chicken. I have a large cattle yard about 2 miles away, sometimes these traps kill pounds of flies per day and I gotta dump them out or no more can get in!
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Post by fishnbugz on Jul 4, 2018 13:08:43 GMT -8
The #1 thing I do to avoid the flies though, is bait up/rebait late in the day/evacuate the traps of everything that's in it right before dark. When I come around at night, the flies will leave the trap and bombard the light if I shine it on the trap opening, that's a way to reduce their numbers if it's not too many. I can't call it a "good" way because they swarm to whoever's holding the light. Up here one check in the morning isn't gonna show you the true number of moths visiting your trap. I commonly notice moths finding their way out of the traps during the course of a few hours, and I when I'm just running a few traps at home I wanna find the moths I want and grab them out as soon as they settle in. This keeps 'em nicer in some cases too, but mainly it secures them so they don't leave the trap during the night. If I leave a moth I don't want trapped, it usually finds it's way out by shortly after sunrise anyway. Butterflies often sit in there for days if not removed, but moths need to feel hidden and a lot lower percentage is gonna stay put.
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Post by rayrard on Jul 5, 2018 0:47:51 GMT -8
In CT I had the first Catocala of the season: a C. coccinata. Fairly early for up here as they don't get started up until mid-July.
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Post by LEPMAN on Jul 5, 2018 5:30:45 GMT -8
secures them so they don't leave the trap during the night. If I leave a moth I don't want trapped, it usually finds it's way out by shortly after sunrise anyway. Butterflies often sit in there for days if not removed, but moths need to feel hidden and a lot lower percentage is gonna stay put. Ive noticed moths often do leave butterfly traps, I had this problem too here in China. I only realized this problem after I made a small contraption to try to keep the moths from finding their way out. After implementing the contraption I started catching moths I didn't even know could be found here such as Catocala, Eudocima among others. I even managed to catch some kind of large hawkmoth looking moth.
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jul 5, 2018 12:31:05 GMT -8
I was up early this morning and checked all of my Bait Traps. There were numerous Catocala moths: Catocala ilia, Catocala innubens, Catocala palaeogama, Catocala neogama and a lone Catocala nebulosi. None of the smaller Catocala moths. However, Noctua pronuba were in every trap in several different variations. The Noctua pronuba below has a reddish cast in the forewings. I collected and mounted four varitions. I also encountered dozens of a "Flower" fly in each trap, until today I have never taken or seen this fly in a Bait Trap previously. Can anyone identify this fly. Each trap has dozens of butterflies. Five or six Limenitis arthemis astyanax were in each Bait Trap, however, not a single Limenitis archippus.
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Post by trehopr1 on Jul 5, 2018 20:52:02 GMT -8
I have to say in all honesty; I still don't understand the apparent "novelty" that others see in these bait traps. Sure, they sit out 24/7. Sure they are great for rough survey purposes of a given location. But really, how do you manage to get anything good out of them? I read about more complaints about these contraptions than I dare mention. Let's start with bait that does not seem to draw, to bait that is too good; drawing too many Nymphalids/ Flies/ Hornets or Yellowjackets. Then there are the weather issues. Rain that washes out bait or waters it down. Winds that trash your traps or blow away your bait. Drought or heat which quickly dries out or otherwise makes your bait ineffective in short term. Is it really just a game of numbers? Attract say 20 catocala of any kind to your trap on any one night and by morning when you get to it ( provided you don't have a job or are retired); you maybe wind up with 5 to 7 keepers out of the lot. With the rest being too beat up to bother with. So repeat this enough days or times and you finally start getting some numbers. Seems like an awful lot of work, dedication, and babysitting.... Too much for this one. I'll continue putting out my Merc.Vapor light when conditions are favorable. Collect up my Catocala as they come in and cherry-pick em' as they arrive. On other nights (with the right conditions) I'll paint my 20 trees with sugar bait / wine / beer and bananas and catch my drunken Catocala with next to no effort and wind up with a winner (2 out of 3 times) or better. Still, if this method works for you and it "floats your boat" and your still happy with the results; then my " hat's off to you" and good hunting. Regards...
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jul 6, 2018 4:28:18 GMT -8
A lot of what happens to specimens entrapped in a Bait Traps and there condition, depends on the Bait Trap. I prefer 15 inch diameter by 36 inch height with a solid Cloth/Oil Cloth Top and a Skirt of 4 inches on the top. I have tired 18" diameter and 48" height, but my arms are only so long. I check my Bait Traps everyday, and from mid July to late October, twice a day depending on weather. I get my share of rags, but I also get some real beauties. The Limenitis arthemis astyanax below was collected from a bait trap last year. I did not get to the Bait Trap that collected this specimen until late in the afternoon. However, it is a nice specimen. On the other hand, I have the resources (Owner of Leptraps LLC), the time (I am retired) and just enjoy getting out with a net in my hand and walk my trap lines and collecting as I go. Perfect specimens are a goal, however, I have many worn specimens that represent important records. And then there is the chase, as you approach the trap you see a nice Black Witch on the out side of the trap. And if it is a female, it must be taken alive. I have seen many designs and many home made bait traps in my life time. The 9 inch by 42 inch tropics bait traps must be check several times a day. Once several large Lep's become entrapped that fly about in their struggle to escape and as a result, anything else in the trap also moves about causing more activity in the trap. And as a result, poor quality specimens. If you want perfect specimens, rear them. I do that as well. Bait Traps collect females as well. A little off topic, regardless of the species, insect, butterfly, moth, humans. Females of any creature are all alike. Give them some booze and they are yours! (Boy am I gonna hear about that comment!!)
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Post by LEPMAN on Jul 6, 2018 18:22:38 GMT -8
I have to say in all honesty; I still don't understand the apparent "novelty" that others see in these bait traps. In my opinion bait traps, at least here in China are vital to obtain a representation of all the species. Some species such as Melantis phedima Ive only been sucessful in collecting in traps. Polynura and Charaxes are often challenging as well to collect via a hand net, they often like to frequent stag beetle holes high up on oak trees to drink the sap and placing the trap near these holes can yield one many specimens. Bait traps in my region depending on the season are often full of Aparura, Stichophalma, Neope, Charaxes, Polynura, as well as many satyridae and moths. Considering that in May a well placed trap can catch me a average of 50 keeper specimens, I would not be hesitant at all to call it a novelty. Not to mention that chasing after Stichophalma in their bamboo forrest habitat can be treacherous, but with a trap you can catch just as many keeper specimens if not more. Ed
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Post by trehopr1 on Jul 6, 2018 21:51:50 GMT -8
18duroe, your points in your post are well taken and I admit it was un-fair of me to call bait traps a novelty. They are simply another tool (method) available to the collector in achieving certain species one might not collect or find very often. These traps work well if they are maintained regularly. But, the point is that it takes resources, time, and a dedication that many of us just don't have. Now, if I lived in a place such as you and I could get great things like Stichopthalma, Charaxes, and Polyura in such traps than I would surely have boundless dedication and a higher regard. My full time work precludes me from ever using this method as I simply could not keep up with them. Lighting and sugaring I find work for me as they are selective in the frame of time that I have available. Perhaps some day when I am retired I will buy a few and "give it a go". And as I mentioned; if the method works for you and your are happy with the results than I "tip my hat to you" and good hunting....
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Post by LEPMAN on Jul 7, 2018 6:29:31 GMT -8
Trephor, I must agree that if I was back in america I would be much more inclined to use sugaring and the other methods youve mentioned. The main reason I resorted to bait traps was because as a foreign teenager in China it is not feasible for me to spend a night in a mountain, as I often dont have anyone to acompany me. Bait traps allowed me to catch night flying moths and challenging to catch species withought putting my safety at too great of a risk. My mother is quite experienced at sewing and she was able to put together a handfull of traps. with the cheap materials available here I am able to make traps for les than 2 dollars each, the bait I can get cheaply from fruit vendors or if in season I can collect local rotting fruit. Not to mention the villagers are often very nice and often help me by monitoring my traps so one takes them and some are even willing to send me pictures of the traps so i know what ive caught.This makes traps more convenient for me. But if im given a choice between bait and MV I would chose MV.
Ed.
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Post by rayrard on Jul 7, 2018 7:58:45 GMT -8
Sugaring and tapping are the best for Catocala, but these techniques equally are horrible versus awesome apparently at random. You can go out one day and hit the jackpot, and then go out the next day and get one or two. The bait traps are convenient for setting and leaving for longer terms or for getting continuous sampling of an area. It helps if the trap is close by so you merely have to check and refill with minimal effort.
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Post by fishnbugz on Jul 7, 2018 11:02:59 GMT -8
I keep a few traps in the yard baited most of the time regardless of weather. They don't catch much when one of the factors is off... But when weather and timing align, no tree-tapping or sugaring trees is even gonna come close to what I can do with traps. I think the count was 86 catocala the last night I did this, and I only used 2/3 of the traps that I could have. I've caught more than that in a night, with less traps, in previous seasons. A night like that, there are probably gonna be 15-20 with chips or bat damage, maybe a couple with scale loss. If one gets caught in a fold it might be completely de-scaled, but this isn't common. At least 75% of the catch is usually nice moths in my experience, with more bat damage and flight wear than trap damage. Especially early in the hatch, most moths will be in very good condition.
You get to pick the best one you see with sugaring, and hope the others you like don't spook. I just catch them all with the trap, then sort through and release what isn't wanted. Tromping around in 90+ temps in the woods you might see as many moths...but seeing doesn't equal catching. Seeing them in the daytime would mainly make me think, "I gotta get some traps in here!". Not saying I wouldn't do any of these methods, I've tried them- but traps equals the most moths in my experience, and the number isn't even close. I think it really depends on where you are, what is gonna be the best method. But to hang out one or two traps, you aren't getting a big enough sample size to really get things dialed in. With multiple traps I can experiment with baits and locations, and I have seen how one trap can be near empty even on a great night, just because it was in the wrong spot.
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