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Post by sam9710 on Feb 25, 2018 21:00:39 GMT -8
Hi everyone！
I‘ve got some eggs of P.nomion and P.bremeri from wild caught females last year and I hope to rearing them.As a green hand for breeding parnassius，I have lots of questions need you help ：）
As I read the thread of Robert for rearing parnassius，for parnassius it should be controlling temperatures <12 and with high-lights heated? So which equipment can help me to do that? And may I need to do something with humidity?
The food plants seem is Rhodiola dumulosa I’ve got this but it is really small，I’m afraid they will be soonly dry after I cut them down,how to solve it?
And hope any other hints for breeding parnassius, all of your hints will be very useful!
Thank you!
Sam
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 26, 2018 1:36:23 GMT -8
Hi Sam
I think the best is to rear them outside in your garden, if you live in a Parnassius friendly area. (=cold winter).
I doubt you will find an equipment to recreate a suitable environment in your house. Parnassius larvaes are very difficult to rear (at least the European Parnassius that I know).
Good luck
Olivier
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 26, 2018 3:10:17 GMT -8
Hi Sam I think the best is to rear them outside in your garden, if you live in a Parnassius friendly area. (=cold winter). I doubt you will find an equipment to recreate a suitable environment in your house. Parnassius larvaes are very difficult to rear (at least the European Parnassius that I know). Good luck Olivier Hi Oliver！ Yes I live in Beijing，the winter is quiet cold but summer really really hot！I collect them from the highest mountain in Beijing（more than 2000）but my room only 500 . So it get warm quiet early than mountains.....I‘m afraid it was too late....... |
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 26, 2018 3:57:35 GMT -8
I doubt you can rear Parnassius species in Beijing unfortunately.
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 26, 2018 4:21:58 GMT -8
I doubt you can rear Parnassius species in Beijing unfortunately. How about use a Plant Growth Chamber？ |
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Post by bobw on Feb 26, 2018 5:57:09 GMT -8
If you want to rear Parnassius at low altitudes you need to start them early in the year, in Beijing you really need to start them in January - the eggs should hatch as soon as you take them out of the fridge and into warmer temperatures. They need low air temperatures and high light levels so it's best to do them outdoors but under light (an ordinary electric light bulb is enough). I fear you have already left it too late for this year but you could still try it; if the larvae get too warm they will grow too fast and produce very small adults, or if it gets too hot the full-grown larvae will die.
You just need to find a way to get the foodplants big enough earlier in the year. A good alternative might be Sedum telephium - I know that Central Asian Parnassius of the apollo group will take it but I don't know about Chinese nomion and bremeri.
Parnassius can be reared at lower altitudes but it's not easy. Just don't expect to get full-sized adults.
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 26, 2018 6:22:15 GMT -8
If you want to rear Parnassius at low altitudes you need to start them early in the year, in Beijing you really need to start them in January - the eggs should hatch as soon as you take them out of the fridge and into warmer temperatures. They need low air temperatures and high light levels so it's best to do them outdoors but under light (an ordinary electric light bulb is enough). I fear you have already left it too late for this year but you could still try it; if the larvae get too warm they will grow too fast and produce very small adults, or if it gets too hot the full-grown larvae will die. You just need to find a way to get the foodplants big enough earlier in the year. A good alternative might be Sedum telephium - I know that Central Asian Parnassius of the apollo group will take it but I don't know about Chinese nomion and bremeri. Parnassius can be reared at lower altitudes but it's not easy. Just don't expect to get full-sized adults. Thankyou bobw！！ These are really useful I can not find Sedum telephium ，only Sedum spectabile is availiable is it possible？ In origin placea they choose Rhodiola dumulosa，but now mine is really small，I put them in room and most of them died in winter，but sprouting last week. |
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 26, 2018 7:25:04 GMT -8
If you want to rear Parnassius at low altitudes you need to start them early in the year, in Beijing you really need to start them in January - the eggs should hatch as soon as you take them out of the fridge and into warmer temperatures. They need low air temperatures and high light levels so it's best to do them outdoors but under light (an ordinary electric light bulb is enough). I fear you have already left it too late for this year but you could still try it; if the larvae get too warm they will grow too fast and produce very small adults, or if it gets too hot the full-grown larvae will die. You just need to find a way to get the foodplants big enough earlier in the year. A good alternative might be Sedum telephium - I know that Central Asian Parnassius of the apollo group will take it but I don't know about Chinese nomion and bremeri. Parnassius can be reared at lower altitudes but it's not easy. Just don't expect to get full-sized adults. These days outside in Beijing is -1 to 11 degrees is this temperature fit for them？But the Air quality index seems no good these days....... |
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Post by bobw on Feb 26, 2018 10:37:19 GMT -8
I very much doubt if Sedum spectabile would be acceptable, it's a very different plant; I guess you are limited to the wild foodplant, you just have to find a way to get it out earlier. It might be worth trying to do a bit more research to find out what foodplants these species use in other areas and see if you can get them.
In the wild, Parnassius eggs would hatch when the snow melts, after that I'm sure they would be subject to frost from time to time so I doubt if the occasional -1 would hurt them. I'm guessing that when they're small they will generally get temperatures between about 2 and 10 degrees and between 10 and 20 when larger. Unfortunately I think that air pressure is probably as much a factor in their development as temperature or light, and that's harder to control. It does seem that small adults are always the result when rearing them at low altitudes.
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Post by Paul K on Feb 26, 2018 15:36:50 GMT -8
I suppose smaller size of adults reared in lower altitudes maybe related to higher oxygen level in the atmosphere. Together with size also the breathing system is smaller which prevent oxygen poisoning.
The oxygen level drops about 10% with each 1000m above see level.
The Parnassius species are adjusted to low oxygen in high altitudes so growing smaller size in lowlands perhaps is naturally regulated to increase surviving rate.
Paul
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 26, 2018 19:19:22 GMT -8
I very much doubt if Sedum spectabile would be acceptable, it's a very different plant; I guess you are limited to the wild foodplant, you just have to find a way to get it out earlier. It might be worth trying to do a bit more research to find out what foodplants these species use in other areas and see if you can get them. In the wild, Parnassius eggs would hatch when the snow melts, after that I'm sure they would be subject to frost from time to time so I doubt if the occasional -1 would hurt them. I'm guessing that when they're small they will generally get temperatures between about 2 and 10 degrees and between 10 and 20 when larger. Unfortunately I think that air pressure is probably as much a factor in their development as temperature or light, and that's harder to control. It does seem that small adults are always the result when rearing them at low altitudes. I can also get Sedum aizoon，what about this？ |
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Post by bobw on Feb 26, 2018 23:43:42 GMT -8
I can also get Sedum aizoon，what about this？ I don't know; it's worth a try but the only Sedum species I know of that works for the Central Asian species that use Rhodiola in the wild is S. telephium. Some other species use S. ewersi in the wild. They can be a bit fussy: e.g. P. apollo often uses S. album in Europe but P. apollo from Central Asia won't touch it, however, they will take S. telephium. I guess the answer is to experiment with anything you can. |
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Post by sam9710 on Feb 27, 2018 0:49:32 GMT -8
I can also get Sedum aizoon，what about this？ I don't know; it's worth a try but the only Sedum species I know of that works for the Central Asian species that use Rhodiola in the wild is S. telephium. Some other species use S. ewersi in the wild. They can be a bit fussy: e.g. P. apollo often uses S. album in Europe but P. apollo from Central Asia won't touch it, however, they will take S. telephium. I guess the answer is to experiment with anything you can. Ok ，thank you bobw！I will try some plants and will sent the result here. |
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robert61
Full Member
Posts: 184
Country: GERMANY
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Post by robert61 on Feb 28, 2018 13:12:29 GMT -8
many years ago I used Sedum album for P.nomion from Mongolia. The first days I used a species of Rhodiola but after a while they accepted Sedum album.
Robert
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Post by sam9710 on Mar 1, 2018 8:34:16 GMT -8
I put a part of eggs out ，and about how long time they will hatch out？
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