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Post by beetlehorn on Jul 2, 2017 4:00:36 GMT -8
Recently I reared a batch of Callosamia securifera. I got about a dozen to spin cocoons, and so far only five have eclosed. That was over two weeks ago. I carefully opened two of the remaining cocoons to see if they have dried up or even developed fully, and I found normally colored pupae that are inactive. They look dormant in my opinion, but I just don't know. I am asking to see if someone knows how to determine if they are still alive. Is there a way to tell?
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leptraps
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Post by leptraps on Jul 2, 2017 9:44:48 GMT -8
I have an area under my deck with several large cages for cocoons, Chrysalids and other stages of development that need to remain out of doors. I usually keep cocoons over the winter. However, some do not emerge and I have had some go over the second winter, to my surprise, I have had several H. cecropia and C. promethea emerge the following spring. I have never had that happen with butterflies.
However, I have had overwintering chrysalids of spring butterflies emerge in August and September.
I had a Tachinid fly emerge from an Actias Luna cocoon that I reared the previous year in mid August of the following year.. I assumed it was looking for a host of last instar larva, possibly Actias luna. Then again it could just be a late emerging fly. I still have the fly, I just could never get it identfied.
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Post by oehlkew on Jul 2, 2017 15:57:06 GMT -8
As long as the abdomen is still pliant and the pupa does not appear shrivelled, the pupa is probably still good. Some species, especially securifera, are known to produce a "mixed bag" of pupa from the same brood stock. That is, some will emerge same year, some will overwinter.
Bill Oehlke
In deep south people are finding that pupae of many species do not emerge in same pattern of broods, i.e., some luna from spring brood (eggs deposited in February) will emerge in two-three weeks of spin up while other cocoons from same stock will emerge in synce with third or fourth brood same spring/summer and even some will overwinter.
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Liang
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Post by Liang on Jul 2, 2017 21:44:22 GMT -8
Weight is usually a very reliable indicator of viability, and does not even require you to open the cocoons. I always records weights of all of my cocoons/pupae when they are fresh and reweigh them every once in awhile. A gradual decrease in weight over the course of several weeks is normal if the pupae are not overwintering and should drop rapidly around the time that you expect them to eclose. If weight remains constant, the pupae are likely going to overwinter. A sudden sharp decrease in weight at a random time is likely a sign that the pupae has died and dried out.
Since I'm guessing you never took the weights of the cocoons when they were still fresh, I would just weigh the two naked pupae you have extracted and record them, then keep reweighing every few days to see if there is change.
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Post by beetlehorn on Jul 3, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -8
I appreciate all of the input regarding this matter. Perhaps this could be of future help to someone rearing Saturnidae species. I decided to take the pupae I removed temporarily from their cocoons, and snap a photo to share here. In all but one of the pupae, the abdomens are drawn upwards, (not sure what this means), but they are all still pliable, and have retained their weight as far as I can tell. I do have a powder scale(for reloading ammo) that measures in grains, so I guess I could weigh them now and wait a week, weigh them again and see if there is any change.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 3, 2017 15:48:15 GMT -8
Put your lips on the pupae ( seriously). If they are cold they are viable. If warm they are not.
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Post by tv on Jul 10, 2017 17:26:35 GMT -8
Put your lips on the pupae ( seriously). If they are cold they are viable. If warm they are not. That has to be one of the dirtier things I've read on these message boards.  |
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Post by bobw on Jul 10, 2017 21:52:07 GMT -8
Put your lips on the pupae ( seriously). If they are cold they are viable. If warm they are not. That's the method that I, and most other people I know, have always used. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 12, 2017 15:59:52 GMT -8
It works. If you eat vegetables fresh from the garden, even if rinsed, it is just the same as a pupa.
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Post by tv on Jul 14, 2017 21:00:21 GMT -8
I was not questioning the cleanliness of technique, merely saying it sounds very suggestive.
If you said that to some random person on the street you'd probably be arrested.
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toosa
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Post by toosa on Mar 27, 2018 20:42:26 GMT -8
I have some Luna pupae as well. Two have eclosed. One became very light weight and stiff. I removed that one from the group. Today I noticed one pupa was squishy and seemed to be leaking just the slightest amount of fluid. Does anyone know what that could mean for it? Thanks!
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Post by Chloe F. on Mar 28, 2018 4:40:21 GMT -8
A pupa that is squishy and leaking is definitely dead. Living pupae will be hardy, but will not seem dry. The pupae below are a couple of my living ones.  |
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toosa
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Post by toosa on Mar 28, 2018 21:10:45 GMT -8
A pupa that is squishy and leaking is definitely dead. Living pupae will be hardy, but will not seem dry. The pupae below are a couple of my living ones. Thanks so much for responding Chloe! I was worried that it was dead. I'm now at a 50/50 rate of eclosion vs dead pupae. I hope the rest of them will make it. What can cause it to turn into mush? Does anyone know?? |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 29, 2018 0:13:08 GMT -8
Probably a bacterial infection.
Adam.
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