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Post by rayrard on Mar 30, 2017 11:03:35 GMT -8
Hey everyone,
I am officially booked to go to SE Arizona for the first time this year! I will be in town for LepSoc and will probably go off with a friend to the SE corner for some day AND night collecting (I know, when will I sleep?).
I will be around from the 26th of July to the 2nd of August. We will be flying in so we will have to take equipment with us in luggage unfortunately. We will rent a SUV and a generator, and I assume ship acetate to the hotel in Tuscon?
I could use some pointers, advice, or tips for the trip as it is my first try and my friend went like a decade ago.
1. Is camping allowed and if we don't have room in our luggage is in-car sleeping allowed? Is it safe in the area from border related stuff? 2. Are wild animals a concern, like rattlesnakes and mountain lions, or are they very rare? Does anyone have encounters with them while collecting? 3. What is the monsoon season like, and what are the predictions for this year? Do you have total washouts for collecting or just pop-up thunderstorms that come and go and allow for day collecting? We want to plan our path but cannot predict weather. I assume rain doesn't hurt night collecting except to get people wet and flood roads? 4. Are there any "must see" localities that are usually producing year to year? I know spots vary by night and season but are there spots that are riskier than others, or high risk, high reward? 5. For day collecting, I heard the arid areas are fairly slow but I see NABA reports for 90+ species around the area. Are people saying it is "slow" not in the right spots? Are there good spots for skipper collecting? 6. Would you recommend any "side trips" as being worth it and are the drives bad? I see spots for Automeris randa towards New Mexico and also spots to the east and northeast of Tuscon that might have more Rocky Mountain fauna. Seems like there is a faunal break in the middle of AZ. It would be cool to get Nokomis Fritillary. 7. We plan on running at least two 175 MV and some blacklights, but my friend has a 400 watt bulb with a sketch ballast he might not be able to travel with. I assume bigger is better? Should I invest in a 250 watt MV? 8. Should I bring a hanging bait trap? I would think some Asterocampa and some rare vagrant stuff might be easier to take in a trap, as well as Catocala and Black Witch. Anyone bait in AZ? 9. How is the Tiger Beetle diversity and cerambycid diversity and any good locations for these? 10. I see that species have up and down years, but I assume some groups are good while others are bad and vice versa so it shouldn't effect my experience as a whole. Has anyone had total crap nights in AZ and what caused the failure?
If you have answers to any of these, I'd appreciate it.
Anyone else going to be at LepSoc this year and doing some collecting? Do the NABA watchers get along with collectors in AZ? I see their counts are around the same time we are there. I'd hate to run into butterfly-hugger elderly safari folks scolding me for collecting leps!
I am pumped for the trip.
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Post by joee30 on Mar 30, 2017 17:59:59 GMT -8
Nice! You surely should have a blast as this year's rain/snow in the west was great. Hopefully the monsoon will be exceptional this year as well.
1. Depending of where you are planning to go in SE Arizona, you shouldn't have any issues with drug cartels or drug runners. Illegal immigrants don't want to get found out, so they try to stay well away from your bug lights. If you decide to go really close to the border areas, be watchful, and ready. There are many areas that should be good for camping, like Madera Canyon, PAtagonia, and Copper Canyon. Pena Blanca has a campground as well. I'm sure you can find a secluded area and sleep in the car as well.
2. Rattlesnakes and mountain lions are always a risk, but to be honest, you don't run into cougars as much as you can potentially run into rattlers. Even then, it's best to tread carefully, especially at night. I personally haven't run into too many rattlers aside from Black-tailed rattlers in Bog Springs Campground in Madera Canyon, but I never ran into any angry ones.
3. I have no idea how this monsoon might be, but they are normally pop up thunderstorms mostly. They can hit anytime, any place. They can create horrible road conditions and flash floods. They are also good for collecting if they hit earlier in the day, If they hit in the evening, sometimes it can get too cool. Normally never had too much bad luck collecting during storms.
4. The must see places normally have a general group of moths that are all over, but some places have their specialties. As for risks, the vary depending on how strong, or weak the monsoons are. Last year sucked for me, but managed to get some decent moths, just not many.
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evra
Full Member
Posts: 230
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Post by evra on Mar 30, 2017 19:43:29 GMT -8
That's a lot of questions. Arizona is kind of unforgiving in the sense that the summer flights are short with high flight volumes, so if you time it right, it can be great. If you're off by 10-14 days, you might not get anything. It's also hard from a location perspective. Setting up somewhere out in the desert down near Tucson is generally not a good idea. You generally set up in canyons with very diverse vegetation in National Forest land in the mountains. If you just pick a random spot you probably won't do well.
Trying to collect butterflies at that time of year can be kind of hard. The diversity and numbers aren't great in southern Arizona. The really impressive species lists tend to happen more in September and October. It's a lot better in eastern AZ at that time, which is all high elevation collecting, but that's a 4 hr drive from Tucson.
It usually rains in the afternoons and sometimes at night. Rain in the morning is kind of rare. Most storms are only a couple hours, but the rainfall is usually torrential. You don't want to be stuck in the bottom of a canyon during a storm.
You could try bait trapping, but I don't think that it would be great. It's kind of early for Catocalas, although you can get a few at high elevation around aspens. Almost all of the Black Witches I see are at lights, and they can be fairly common at certain spots.
For tiger beetles you want to do Willcox Playa. It's pretty impressive at that time. Cerambycids can be excellent depending on the year.
There are lots of good side trips all over the whole state. It all depends on how much driving you want to do. Distances are vast in the west, and a lot of these side trips can be 100-250 miles one way. The NABA people in AZ are pretty relaxed and generally get along with collectors. Personally I run into lots of bird watchers and herpers, they seem to be the dominant groups.
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Post by rayrard on Mar 30, 2017 21:51:07 GMT -8
Nice! You surely should have a blast as this year's rain/snow in the west was great. Hopefully the monsoon will be exceptional this year as well. 1. Depending of where you are planning to go in SE Arizona, you shouldn't have any issues with drug cartels or drug runners. Illegal immigrants don't want to get found out, so they try to stay well away from your bug lights. If you decide to go really close to the border areas, be watchful, and ready. There are many areas that should be good for camping, like Madera Canyon, PAtagonia, and Copper Canyon. Pena Blanca has a campground as well. I'm sure you can find a secluded area and sleep in the car as well. 2. Rattlesnakes and mountain lions are always a risk, but to be honest, you don't run into cougars as much as you can potentially run into rattlers. Even then, it's best to tread carefully, especially at night. I personally haven't run into too many rattlers aside from Black-tailed rattlers in Bog Springs Campground in Madera Canyon, but I never ran into any angry ones. 3. I have no idea how this monsoon might be, but they are normally pop up thunderstorms mostly. They can hit anytime, any place. They can create horrible road conditions and flash floods. They are also good for collecting if they hit earlier in the day, If they hit in the evening, sometimes it can get too cool. Normally never had too much bad luck collecting during storms. 4. The must see places normally have a general group of moths that are all over, but some places have their specialties. As for risks, the vary depending on how strong, or weak the monsoons are. Last year sucked for me, but managed to get some decent moths, just not many. 5 Thank you for the information. Everyone gets super hyped about AZ, and I don'yt want to overhype it, but I hope it's as good as everyone says it is. At least I am not going one or two nights and risk a bad night and come home disappointed. Given I have no SW moths or butterflies I think my chances of being unhappy are slim.
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Post by rayrard on Mar 30, 2017 21:58:21 GMT -8
That's a lot of questions. Arizona is kind of unforgiving in the sense that the summer flights are short with high flight volumes, so if you time it right, it can be great. If you're off by 10-14 days, you might not get anything. It's also hard from a location perspective. Setting up somewhere out in the desert down near Tucson is generally not a good idea. You generally set up in canyons with very diverse vegetation in National Forest land in the mountains. If you just pick a random spot you probably won't do well. Trying to collect butterflies at that time of year can be kind of hard. The diversity and numbers aren't great in southern Arizona. The really impressive species lists tend to happen more in September and October. It's a lot better in eastern AZ at that time, which is all high elevation collecting, but that's a 4 hr drive from Tucson. It usually rains in the afternoons and sometimes at night. Rain in the morning is kind of rare. Most storms are only a couple hours, but the rainfall is usually torrential. You don't want to be stuck in the bottom of a canyon during a storm. You could try bait trapping, but I don't think that it would be great. It's kind of early for Catocalas, although you can get a few at high elevation around aspens. Almost all of the Black Witches I see are at lights, and they can be fairly common at certain spots. For tiger beetles you want to do Willcox Playa. It's pretty impressive at that time. Cerambycids can be excellent depending on the year. There are lots of good side trips all over the whole state. It all depends on how much driving you want to do. Distances are vast in the west, and a lot of these side trips can be 100-250 miles one way. The NABA people in AZ are pretty relaxed and generally get along with collectors. Personally I run into lots of bird watchers and herpers, they seem to be the dominant groups. Sorry for the ton of questions... the thread can go in any direction it wants now. Thanks for the answers. I just have a few followups: Given I will be there late July through the 2nd of August I think I stand the best change to overlap that flight window? I imagine the last half of July and the first half of August is when everything is most active. Are "downtimes" still good there or do you have "gnat nights" with very little out there sometimes? I have seen posts where the worst nights in AZ in July beat any night in the East. Don't know if that is true but I want to have realistic expectations. I am also confused by you saying the butterfly collecting is hard. The NABA Patagonia count had over 90 species at that time of year. Is it just that butterflies are scattered far and wide? We are planning on hitting some other areas besides the desert canyons so we may have better luck there. Early for Catocala? That's odd. They usually are emerging in the northeast by late July and emerge as early as May in the southeast U.S. Must be a poor habitat for the hosts in the canyons. I will have to check that spot for tiger beetles
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Post by rayrard on Mar 30, 2017 22:44:08 GMT -8
Also, what happened to the "Moths of SE Arizona page? It shows up on search pages and image searches but everything is gone?
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Post by joee30 on Mar 30, 2017 22:45:19 GMT -8
That's a lot of questions. Arizona is kind of unforgiving in the sense that the summer flights are short with high flight volumes, so if you time it right, it can be great. If you're off by 10-14 days, you might not get anything. It's also hard from a location perspective. Setting up somewhere out in the desert down near Tucson is generally not a good idea. You generally set up in canyons with very diverse vegetation in National Forest land in the mountains. If you just pick a random spot you probably won't do well. Trying to collect butterflies at that time of year can be kind of hard. The diversity and numbers aren't great in southern Arizona. The really impressive species lists tend to happen more in September and October. It's a lot better in eastern AZ at that time, which is all high elevation collecting, but that's a 4 hr drive from Tucson. It usually rains in the afternoons and sometimes at night. Rain in the morning is kind of rare. Most storms are only a couple hours, but the rainfall is usually torrential. You don't want to be stuck in the bottom of a canyon during a storm. You could try bait trapping, but I don't think that it would be great. It's kind of early for Catocalas, although you can get a few at high elevation around aspens. Almost all of the Black Witches I see are at lights, and they can be fairly common at certain spots. For tiger beetles you want to do Willcox Playa. It's pretty impressive at that time. Cerambycids can be excellent depending on the year. There are lots of good side trips all over the whole state. It all depends on how much driving you want to do. Distances are vast in the west, and a lot of these side trips can be 100-250 miles one way. The NABA people in AZ are pretty relaxed and generally get along with collectors. Personally I run into lots of bird watchers and herpers, they seem to be the dominant groups. Sorry for the ton of questions... the thread can go in any direction it wants now. Thanks for the answers. I just have a few followups: Given I will be there late July through the 2nd of August I think I stand the best change to overlap that flight window? I imagine the last half of July and the first half of August is when everything is most active. Are "downtimes" still good there or do you have "gnat nights" with very little out there sometimes? I have seen posts where the worst nights in AZ in July beat any night in the East. Don't know if that is true but I want to have realistic expectations. I am also confused by you saying the butterfly collecting is hard. The NABA Patagonia count had over 90 species at that time of year. Is it just that butterflies are scattered far and wide? We are planning on hitting some other areas besides the desert canyons so we may have better luck there. Early for Catocala? That's odd. They usually are emerging in the northeast by late July and emerge as early as May in the southeast U.S. Must be a poor habitat for the hosts in the canyons. I will have to check that spot for tiger beetles Catacolas aren't that common oyt west as they are out east. I'm sure if you go to some canyon with oaks, walnuts, and aspen/cottonwood, you can get tgem, but they are rather hard to come by. Last year, I did catch some Locust underwings in Madera Canyon at the very top of the road by the bathrooms at a light mme and my friend set up. I was there last year about the time you went last year, and aside from pierids, I didn't see too much for butterflies really. Sept and october like Evra said is peak for butterflies. If you want Dynastes, they come out in mid August up by Payson or anywhere above the Mogollon Rim.
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evra
Full Member
Posts: 230
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Post by evra on Mar 31, 2017 17:51:29 GMT -8
What I'm saying is that the butterfly numbers aren't anywhere near what they are in late September and into October, where you could spend all day every day collecting at flowers for the whole month. It's like being in a butterfly house, except it's outside and you can collect. Every day you would see 10,000+ individuals and a species count of 40-50. In late July you'll see some butterflies, it's not terrible but it isn't fantastic. The moths and beetles are fantastic though.
The only really common Catocalas at that time are violenta, which is generally at higher elevation than most of the other collecting spots, and neogama euphemia, which you'll likely see at lights. Mid to late August is much better for most species.
I think the moths will start to taper off when you arrive, I would personally try a week earlier based on the moon phase, but that week should still be pretty good. You can't get it all in one week, or year, or even decade. I would advise that you pick what species are highest priority and then plan accordingly.
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Post by coloradeo on Mar 31, 2017 19:29:34 GMT -8
Hi Rayrard,
I went for a couple nights last year with advice from people on this site and even met up with a few. It was the same weekend you are going (the LepSoc) weekend this year. I had a blast and although it was 'just ok' according to people who were experienced collectors there -- I really enjoyed it! I stayed out all night in the car for a couple nights and had no trouble. I think you'll have a great time.
I'd recommend looking back on this thread if you have not already... (http://insectnet.proboards.com/thread/3090/wow-trip-se-arizona)
Eric
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Post by joee30 on May 18, 2017 22:36:24 GMT -8
It is exiting if you have never experienced it, and can get overwhelming. Lol Lots of fun though. I will try and go again next year as this summer, I am helping a friend look for Idiostatus and other katydids in the Great Basin here in Nevada. Maybe I can go to AZ in october for butterflies this year. We shall see.
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Post by bluemoth on May 31, 2017 16:46:10 GMT -8
Some years ago went to Arizona just after monsoon time. Pinablonka had lots of neat looking medium/small moths, hawk moths, some springacampa, a few Ecles oslary and a few big ground beetles. Watch out for the giant centipedes at night! I heard their bite can cause extreme pain and temporary blindness. Had good butterfly finds near the camping area. Look for the wild flowers and the butterflies will be there. We did not go to the lake but that mite be another good spot for butterflies. Good luck on your trip!
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Post by mswisher on Jun 7, 2017 1:48:05 GMT -8
Rayrard, I am moving back to AZ this summer and will be collecting in SE AZ for the third year in a row. I would be happy to link up and share whatever information I can. It really is one of the best spots in the world. Additionally, I will be traveling to CT periodically over the summer for business and would really appreciate any information you could share on good spots. All of the public areas in CT seem to be pretty restricted, so it would be nice to find a good area. I will be in Fairfield County.
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Post by rayrard on Jun 7, 2017 20:03:50 GMT -8
Rayrard, I am moving back to AZ this summer and will be collecting in SE AZ for the third year in a row. I would be happy to link up and share whatever information I can. It really is one of the best spots in the world. Additionally, I will be traveling to CT periodically over the summer for business and would really appreciate any information you could share on good spots. All of the public areas in CT seem to be pretty restricted, so it would be nice to find a good area. I will be in Fairfield County. Yeah that would be good. I will surely run into collectors out there, but if you will go to LepSoc I can try and meet up. The collecting is dependent on the weather so what is the "feel" of the year so far as to when the rains will start and if leps are having a good or bad year. I could give you some CT spots but they won't be that fun compared to AZ. You have to find state forests because everything else seems to be a problem nowadays
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Post by bugboys3 on Jul 5, 2017 9:08:10 GMT -8
My son and I are going to be in SE Arizona July 23-28. Any one else going to be there?
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Post by rayrard on Jul 6, 2017 19:35:29 GMT -8
Any word on the timing of the monsoon?
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