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Post by charlie on Jan 10, 2017 16:36:13 GMT -8
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Post by Paul K on Jan 10, 2017 17:49:38 GMT -8
Hm, I have a mixed feelings about this case.
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Post by tv on Jan 10, 2017 21:04:39 GMT -8
I think a lot depends on intent. I'd feel pretty bad if he was just some amateur who found a pretty blue butterfly. In that case, take the specimens away and put them in a museum somewhere, maybe give him a slap on the wrist fine if they feel the need. On the other hand, if he knew what he was capturing at the time, then he was intent on doing something wrong, Like this guy, and he should probably face some more serious consequences. |
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 10, 2017 21:46:31 GMT -8
Looks like the local government doesn't have problems with developing new homes in the area though.
TV, doing "something wrong" and "something illegal" are not synonomous. If UK Gov really cared (like USFWS doesn't) then they'd put a moratorium on development.
In "my" back yard I have breeding spotted salamanders. It's illegal for me to take them, keep them, or breed them. But I don't own that property, and it's for sale for development. Within five years it will be destroyed, and the breeding populations of spotted salamanders with it. And it will be completely legal, and the same people who would put me in jail won't give a damn when all of them are gone.
Government out of control intersecting with individuals who are short sighted and driven by money = inconsistent and ineffective regulation. But as long as there is a salary and a pension, who cares? It's legal corruption. And in USA there is some USFWS weenie who will read this and think that it's unfair and ignorant when the fact is that said weenie is, and he (she) knows that they are part of the problem, but will defend their illigitimate position for what they know, deep inside, is nothing more than personal gain. So sad. Oh darn, I'm going to be on "the list" again.
Chuck
Chuck
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 22:29:43 GMT -8
"In "my" back yard I have breeding spotted salamanders. It's illegal for me to take them, keep them, or breed them. But I don't own that property, and it's for sale for development. Within five years it will be destroyed, and the breeding populations of spotted salamanders with it. And it will be completely legal, and the same people who would put me in jail won't give a damn when all of them are gone."
Well said Chuck..........both true and sad.
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Post by Paul K on Jan 10, 2017 23:29:55 GMT -8
Well said indeed Chuck. I just want to add that same governments want to show to public how deeply they care about natural environment by dragging out the case of that British man for example and indeed it is only cover up for the crime they do around the corner by destroying habitat of another species which someone with hope will be trying to restore again in maybe 30-40 years ahead. "It is claimed witnesses saw Mr Cullen taking them before killing and mounting them in a display case." BTW, Mr.Cullen must to have a "good friends" around him. I assume that person/friend who reported mr.Cullen had no luck to collect one of those blues too.  It seems that no one can trust anyone anymore. |
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Post by luehdorf on Jan 11, 2017 0:27:18 GMT -8
Well, no matter if legal or illegal, it's pretty pointless to collect a reintroduced species, it's a ssp. from Sweden so if he really wants to collect a large blue he should do that in Sweden.
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Post by Paul K on Jan 11, 2017 1:29:55 GMT -8
Well, no matter if legal or illegal, it's pretty pointless to collect a reintroduced species, it's a ssp. from Sweden so if he really wants to collect a large blue he should do that in Sweden. Very true, it's like going to the butterfly greenhouse in Niagara Falls Canada with net to collect Morphos, am I right?...but perhaps Sweden was not on the way.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 4:46:39 GMT -8
Money ALWAYS wins!
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Post by jshuey on Jan 11, 2017 13:03:05 GMT -8
... In "my" back yard I have breeding spotted salamanders. It's illegal for me to take them, keep them, or breed them. But I don't own that property, and it's for sale for development. Within five years it will be destroyed, and the breeding populations of spotted salamanders with it. And it will be completely legal, and the same people who would put me in jail won't give a damn when all of them are gone. Government out of control intersecting with individuals who are short sighted and driven by money = inconsistent and ineffective regulation. But as long as there is a salary and a pension, who cares? It's legal corruption. And in USA there is some USFWS weenie who will read this and think that it's unfair and ignorant when the fact is that said weenie is, and he (she) knows that they are part of the problem, but will defend their illigitimate position for what they know, deep inside, is nothing more than personal gain. So sad. Oh darn, I'm going to be on "the list" again. Chuck Chuck So I'm confused - "spotted salamanders" (Ambystoma maculatum)are found in 32 states and five Canadian Provinces. One state (Delaware) considers it threatened and one state (Oklahoma) considers it vulnerable. All other states and provinces consider it secure (or in two cases, Ohio and South Carolina - not even worth pondering...) It's not federally listed and no-one from FWS gives a rats ass if you do something with the species. You may well have a state law that prohibits collecting salamanders - but nothing federal. As to protecting the breeding habitat - in theory (and in my experience practice as well), anyone impacting wetlands and ephemeral wetlands has to get either US Army Corp of Engineers', US-EPA and the delegated state agency's permission to impact a wetland greater than 0.1 acres. It's not hard to get that permission, but generally take about a year to move the paperwork and costs an arm and a legg from consultants and lawyers. Premmision to fill/impact a wetland also comes with an obligation to "mitigate" for wetland loss at movable ratio depending on the quality of the wetland impacted. Here in Indiana, something crappy like cattails requires 2 acres for every one acre impacted. Forested wetlands like salamander ephemeral pools are 4-5 acres per acre impacted. In my region, high-quality mitigation banks sell credits for something like $50,000-65,000 per acre. There is a lot of incentive for "avoidance of wetland fill" for typical land conversions. It interesting that you rail a bit about non-existent federal regulation of salamanders (or you're talking about some species other than spotted salamander) - as well as their lax handling of habitat loss (when in fact - they are pretty anal about this aspect). If you see a breeding wetland being filled and you are concerned- you can actually call one of those weenies at the Army Corps and tell them that you think there is a wetland violation. The Colonels get off on this enforcement stuff. But like I said, I'm confused...., easily... john |
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Post by jonathan on Jan 14, 2017 3:41:25 GMT -8
Considering that he had 2 specimens of a Swedish re-introduced race, then I don't see neither any scientific nor monetary value in his act. Also, the fact that "if I read correctly" he was not found red-handed catching the blues but the blues where found at his home cannot prove that he collected them from the UK.
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Post by nomad on Jan 14, 2017 12:02:17 GMT -8
It all depends on what data they had.
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Post by nomad on Jan 14, 2017 12:04:39 GMT -8
Well, no matter if legal or illegal, it's pretty pointless to collect a reintroduced species, it's a ssp. from Sweden so if he really wants to collect a large blue he should do that in Sweden. I believe it is protected there.  |
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 14, 2017 13:54:53 GMT -8
John- it's state protection. And it's not wetland, they breed in forest vernal ponds.
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Post by jshuey on Jan 14, 2017 17:40:29 GMT -8
John- it's state protection. And it's not wetland, they breed in forest vernal ponds. In theory - those are protected as well. john |
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