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Post by Paul K on Mar 31, 2016 22:58:55 GMT -8
A lot of nature lovers seem to have a negative disposition toward technology, but we are on the verge of a paradigm shift. Here's a thought experiment. When was the last time you actually touched the butterflies in your collection? They're either viewed behind glass or if you're lucky, you might have an insect land on you in the field or an observatory. For leps, it's 99% visual stimulation that gives us the thrill. In my opinion, simulating these creatures in virtual reality is a better option. A top of the line VR headset is only a couple of hundred dollars, and you have entire worlds to explore at your fingertips. No red tape for collecting, saving up for expeditions that may or may not yield results, importing/exporting hassle, etc. If you were faced with bushwhacking your way through a mosquito infested jungle to maybe have a successful adventure or sit on your couch and be guaranteed an experience, what would you choose? I have already chosen, the first one. My personal small collection is made of 98% self caught specimens. It is no easy task but I love it. It is to be there and experience it with all five senses. Virtual world is similar to our dreams. When we wake up ,it is gone , no real , it never exist . The only difference that we can play it when we want it and repeat as many times as we wish but it doesn't exist.
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 1, 2016 3:16:36 GMT -8
Same for me. Collecting trips must be among the happiest moments of my happy life
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Post by exoticimports on Apr 1, 2016 4:19:31 GMT -8
If you were faced with bushwhacking your way through a mosquito infested jungle to maybe have a successful adventure or sit on your couch and be guaranteed an experience, what would you choose? That's easy- I'll take the jungle any day, even if I see nothing, starve, and get injured. Chuck
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 8:47:11 GMT -8
I might be going a little deep here, but it could be argued that life is a dream. If you think about it, all "you" are is a collection of memories. You have no way of going back and forth in time, hoping you can recall those treasured moments in your life as best as possible. Granted, for the longest time it has been hard to make memories in video games. I've spent quite a few hours at the TV screen and have very little to show for it, maybe a handful of experiences that "stuck." There simply isn't enough stimulation or novelty for your brain to get engaged and store the data, but I promise you VR is a different animal. It appears that even stimulating the auditory and visual senses is enough to immerse the user, and people are reporting vivid recollection of their experiences in a virtual space.
That being said, there are certain aspects of real life that VR can't compare to yet. Your not going to smell the humid air after a heavy downpour, pick a ripe mango and chow down, or have to deal with the consequences of stepping on the wrong ant pile. I understand that all of these things come together to make up the experience, and you need the good and the bad. Would that treasured Prepona mean as much if you didn't have the run in with the venomous snake, probably not. Would that protected Papilio mean as much if you didn't have to jump through all the hoops to finally have it in your collection? Probably not. But these are the kinds of things that designers in the VR industry are working on. What really makes for an engaging and memorable experience.
It's easy to dismiss technology, but as they say "don't knock it till you try it."
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Post by Paul K on Apr 1, 2016 9:25:41 GMT -8
Oh , so designers are working on this. I will be collecting butterflies in some part of jungle experiance all surroundings while sitting on the sofa . Upon returning to my place I will take of my VR glasses or screen what ever and I will find a bunch of freshly collected leps in my bag. Interesting Oh I forget. If I want to spread them nicely I have to put my VR glasses again and do it in virtual world. And if I want to look at my collection I have to where glasses too.
Sorry...I dismissed technology without trying it. I will stick with the real world
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Post by mantisboy on Apr 1, 2016 10:08:12 GMT -8
Oh , so designers are working on this. I will be collecting butterflies in some part of jungle experiance all surroundings while sitting on the sofa . Upon returning to my place I will take of my VR glasses or screen what ever and I will find a bunch of freshly collected leps in my bag. Interesting Oh I forget. If I want to spread them nicely I have to put my VR glasses again and do it in virtual world. And if I want to look at my collection I have to where glasses too. Sorry...I dismissed technology without trying it. I will stick with the real world Yeah, I don't really get the purpose of the whole 'virtual reality' butterfly hunting. I mean, it may be a fun video game in the winter, but what good is a virtual butterfly collection? Here, I'll sell you a virtual Ornithoptera alexandrae for $1500! Also, isn't one of the main basises of entomological collections supposed to be the science that goes along with it? How good are virtual labels on virtual butterflies caught in your living room? I agree it might be a fun game when there is three feet of snow in late February, you have all your insects mounted, and don't have money to travel, but a game is all it would be.
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Post by mantisboy on Apr 1, 2016 10:11:19 GMT -8
In regard to not finding what you are after and having unsuccessful collecting trips, a beetle-scientist friend of mine one said, "A bad day of insect collecting is better than a good day of pretty much anything else".
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Post by 58chevy on Apr 1, 2016 10:14:54 GMT -8
The "VR vs actual reality" argument seems to be a generational thing. The youngsters seem to favor VR, while the older guys, who didn't grow up with it, tend to favor the real-life experience. As an older collector I prefer real-life, but I also think modern technology is great. Without it, we'd be living a stone-age existence. I think it would be fun to go on a VR collecting expedition, but if I had to choose one or the other, give me the real jungle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 10:56:28 GMT -8
Like I said, VR is something you have to try to appreciate. No amount of pro/con debate is going to do it justice. One point I would like to make is that the social aspects of VR will be a deciding factor. It's hard to say you will stick to the real world when, if you are reading this, you have already decided to embrace technology. Insectnet provides a platform for like minded collectors and enthusiasts to interact, but imagine if instead of words on a page we were looking at each other face to face. Maybe Delias are the topic of discussion for the day and a few of us decide to load up the PNG simulation and take a virtual field trip to study their behavior. How much time and money would it take to organize a collecting trip of this nature in the real world? And there would be no $1500 alexandrae, most likely it would be part of a $5 birdwing expedition package available for high speed download. Don't forget the real world hazards of owning a collection as well, dermastids can invade and if you get caught with that alexandrae-well, good luck enjoying your collection in a prison cell Here is a video worth watching. Keep in mind that the technology has progressed leaps and bounds since its publication. We are already able to create photorealistic environments, and over the next couple of years the billions of dollars pouring into the tech will bring the costs down and VR content will explode.
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Post by Paul K on Apr 1, 2016 18:57:25 GMT -8
I could agree that VR would be a great entertainment device most likely more then any 3D TV system as you can in some way interact . Perhaps some kind of exercises before real adventure. Good for handicapped people who can not go to the mountains or jungles. But it will never be a real thing.
Perhaps in few generations there will be no jungles anymore ( which I hope will never happen) then it will be the only one way to see it. But for now I would like to enjoy the real world and real butterflies and I hope our kids and grandkids will have that chance too.
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Post by alandmor on Apr 2, 2016 7:41:49 GMT -8
Google recently launched a "totally immersive, virtual reality experience" which according to Google "lets you see, touch, smell and hear the world just like you do in real life." If you don't believe me and want to see it in action, watch the video below. www.google.com/get/cardboard/plastic/Truly amazing!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 14:56:06 GMT -8
I knew this would be a losing battle when I brought up the topic. Admittedly I am biased, as I am a professional in the industry. Here is a real article by Discover talking about a kickstarter project (that was fully funded in a very short time BTW) showing the potential of haptic feedback. The article states that, and I quote "Gloveone claims wearers will be able to feel rain and fire, plus you should be able to feel something so ethereal as butterfly wings." Here is the link to the article if you wish to investigate. And there are a lot more than gloves available now- full body suits are being tested with similar results. Keep in mind that all of this progress has been made in a few short years. If you are really interested, smell will be the hardest of the senses to replicate as you would need an entire library of scents, about the only option here is neural stimulation-think about movies like The Matrix. Taste is lower on the priority list (although just as difficult as scent), but maybe some of you like to lick butterflies IDK I can guarantee that habitat will continue to deteriorate, and many species will continue to go extinct. For now I will continue to make my 3D insect models, and hopefully some of you will share stories and information to help individuals such as myself accurately portray the insect world for future generations.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 18:46:55 GMT -8
In case there are doubts about the gloves claims, here is a promotional video showing a woman grabbing a butterfly in virtual reality and commenting on the experience. If this doesn't make an impact, I don't know what will. Real is all a matter of perspective.
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Post by joee30 on Apr 2, 2016 19:42:21 GMT -8
This topic made me laugh, but in a good way. I won't lie, as a 35 year old combat veteran, I do play video games to deal with anxiety and to take out some frustration from work and school. If I'm not out swinging a net at bugs, I will be playing a zombie game, or Battlefield( Can't stand Call of Duty). If I just want to relax, there is a fishing simulator I enjoy, but I prefer the real thing. Also, I have delved into the Sims 4, mostly because of my fiancée. Lol
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Post by exoticimports on Apr 4, 2016 4:19:57 GMT -8
We are creating a world of VR idiots- kids that can't see but can make a sniping shot at 500meters without ever having had to work the action, fat kids playing soccer for two hours without getting winded, really stupid hunting games where every deer has a huge rack and is broadside.
Where is the "change the brake pads" VR game or the "fix the siding on the house" game? And don't get me started with VR social interaction or worst of all, intimacy.
Chuck
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