So the foreign dealer ripped you off?
Dec 17, 2014 19:23:58 GMT -8
africaone, livingplanet3, and 6 more like this
Post by exoticimports on Dec 17, 2014 19:23:58 GMT -8
It amazes me to no end the amount of money collectors will send overseas hoping to get rarities for little money. And then they complain they get ripped off.
The economics of developing countries, logistics, laws, and cultures largely make this "something for nothing" opportunity at best unrealistic.
There is, of course, the temptation on the seller's part to bait buyers just to get the money. The most obvious are figured out before money is exchanged, but the bright ones will draw in buyers with one, two, three deliveries until the $1000 buy is made and THAT is the time to do the big rip off!
Beyond the intentional ripoff, there are other factors. Let me share some anecdotes:
* One rural seller sent a whole bunch of stuff to a well known retailer, including species and specimens that were not requested. This caused a mess with USFWS. The seller's response to me was that family members insisted on selling some of their bugs (jumping on the "free cash" bandwagon) and he had no alternative (culturally) but to pay them and pass them on to the buyer.
* There is no way to dry beetles in the tropics. By the time the get collected on some remote island, travel by weekly ferry to the main island, get packed up, and sent overseas may be a good month. Guess what rots, breaks, etc.?
* There is a deeply set human greed accompanied by a lack of understanding of western culture. If ssp X looks damned near like ssp Y, then what harm could possibly come by claiming that one is the other when so much more money can be made by selling as the more expensive ssp? To them, it isn't a crime, it's common sense. This species swap doesn't just stop at the rural collector or wholesaler- the retailers often pass this charade off on consumers.
* Legally speaking, most buyers don't specify the INCOTERMS method of shipment. So if it gets busted in shipping it's the buyer's problem. That's international law. If you buy A+ specimens and they come all broken up, and you didn't specify an INCOTERMS method of shipping, then it really IS the buyer's problem!
* Rural collectors don't have the eye you do for perfection. Period. Looks just fine to them! And if the revenue difference is remarkable (which it usually is) then there is pressure to (perhaps somewhat unconsciously) see it as more perfect than it is. Heck, human nature seems to be this way. Mine is. I sold some stuff as perfect, as I remembered it, then looked at it before shipping and realized it wasn't as good as my defective memory said it was!
* There is intense pressure from family to get more money more money more money! Keep in mind that most rural peoples are short-term thinkers when it comes to Western cash. To satisfy family they have to disappoint you. You're easier to deal with than the family.
Let me close with a real-life example, which also supports buying from known retailers:
* Ornithoptera Victoria rubianensis cost about $15 a pair in Western Province, Solomon Islands. That's flat rate, with no concern for damage, oil, or whatever the name of that blue form is. This now will stick in your mind, as it does everyone who finds out this. $15! US $15!!
* Then the damned things have to get to Honiara by ferry. Usually handed off to some relative to deliver to some other relative. This might take weeks and God knows where the box of Victoria sit during this time.
* The Honiara-based dealers pay the $15 per pair, plus some extra cash for the costs, and a whole boatload of beer. The seller takes the money, buys one bag of rice, gets bombed, and gets his ass kicked by his wife when he gets home.
* So now the dealer in Honiara has 40 pair of OVR. Big deal. They are common as rats, he sees them every day when he goes home. BUT he's anted up US$800 in cash that he borrowed from family, friends, and the unscrupulous and they want their money NOW.
* Meanwhile, some guy from Germany shows up and he's flashing cash. The dealer promised two pairs to some guy in USA, ten pair to a dealer in Canada, and five pair to a guy in Austria. The dealer wants $45/pair in Honiara, and the German guy will take ALL of them at that price. Do I need to do the math for you? A bird in the hand is better than the one in the bush. German guy gets them all.
* Then comes the hemming and hawing. The dealer sold "your" specimens, and it's going to take a month to replace them. Not because OVR are rare, but because of logistics. So you get the sad story, the delays, and perhaps then whatever damned specimens he can come up with to fulfill your order.
* By the way, the dealer doesn't go through every specimen to check quality. Have you ever gone through 40 pair of Victoria? Gets pretty damned boring. And, how the heck is he going to open each one and look at it? Soften it? They've had enough moisture and chances are they'll fall apart if he softens them again. And if he breaks one, that's $45 wasted. Did I mention that looking at Victoria is boring?
* Now, anybody that sells ANYTHING knows there has to be a substantial markup when selling, particularly overseas. Having to replace one pair of OVR to some "ass" from USA that complains it's A- and not A+ means a loss of $90 plus $20 shipping. That risk has to be spread out. So now the price is $100/pair.
* IF and that's IF, by any chance the dealer actually has a license, and pays the export fee and the commercial inspection (which is five times more than the annual wildlife license) then the price goes up. Of course, that doesn't really happen much. As far as I know, the last totally legal export from Solomon Islands occurred in 2010.
* Many large retailers in USA and elsewhere pay AFTER the shipment is received. And if the paperwork isn't 100% or if there are extra specimens, or if the specimens are not A+ the retailer doesn't pay. That means the Honiara-based dealer is out a thousand bucks and his family, friends, and investors want to kick his ass. So, when you come along willing to pre-pay, damned right he's got "something" for you! It's a matter of self preservation.
* Meanwhile, the retailer DOES give a good inspection of the specimens, at least as much as possible. But one can't see everything until the specimen is set, so there is always going to be some problems, replacements, etc. And there's that guy who wrecks a specimen in setting and tells the retailer it was received damaged. End result: The US retailer's landed cost is $60/ pair, he has overhead such as employees and ripoff buyers, and he has to charge $250/ pair.
So, my friends, that's how a $15 pair of butterflies gets to cost $250 and why you might be better off to pay $250 than to think you can order them at $15.
Chuck
The economics of developing countries, logistics, laws, and cultures largely make this "something for nothing" opportunity at best unrealistic.
There is, of course, the temptation on the seller's part to bait buyers just to get the money. The most obvious are figured out before money is exchanged, but the bright ones will draw in buyers with one, two, three deliveries until the $1000 buy is made and THAT is the time to do the big rip off!
Beyond the intentional ripoff, there are other factors. Let me share some anecdotes:
* One rural seller sent a whole bunch of stuff to a well known retailer, including species and specimens that were not requested. This caused a mess with USFWS. The seller's response to me was that family members insisted on selling some of their bugs (jumping on the "free cash" bandwagon) and he had no alternative (culturally) but to pay them and pass them on to the buyer.
* There is no way to dry beetles in the tropics. By the time the get collected on some remote island, travel by weekly ferry to the main island, get packed up, and sent overseas may be a good month. Guess what rots, breaks, etc.?
* There is a deeply set human greed accompanied by a lack of understanding of western culture. If ssp X looks damned near like ssp Y, then what harm could possibly come by claiming that one is the other when so much more money can be made by selling as the more expensive ssp? To them, it isn't a crime, it's common sense. This species swap doesn't just stop at the rural collector or wholesaler- the retailers often pass this charade off on consumers.
* Legally speaking, most buyers don't specify the INCOTERMS method of shipment. So if it gets busted in shipping it's the buyer's problem. That's international law. If you buy A+ specimens and they come all broken up, and you didn't specify an INCOTERMS method of shipping, then it really IS the buyer's problem!
* Rural collectors don't have the eye you do for perfection. Period. Looks just fine to them! And if the revenue difference is remarkable (which it usually is) then there is pressure to (perhaps somewhat unconsciously) see it as more perfect than it is. Heck, human nature seems to be this way. Mine is. I sold some stuff as perfect, as I remembered it, then looked at it before shipping and realized it wasn't as good as my defective memory said it was!
* There is intense pressure from family to get more money more money more money! Keep in mind that most rural peoples are short-term thinkers when it comes to Western cash. To satisfy family they have to disappoint you. You're easier to deal with than the family.
Let me close with a real-life example, which also supports buying from known retailers:
* Ornithoptera Victoria rubianensis cost about $15 a pair in Western Province, Solomon Islands. That's flat rate, with no concern for damage, oil, or whatever the name of that blue form is. This now will stick in your mind, as it does everyone who finds out this. $15! US $15!!
* Then the damned things have to get to Honiara by ferry. Usually handed off to some relative to deliver to some other relative. This might take weeks and God knows where the box of Victoria sit during this time.
* The Honiara-based dealers pay the $15 per pair, plus some extra cash for the costs, and a whole boatload of beer. The seller takes the money, buys one bag of rice, gets bombed, and gets his ass kicked by his wife when he gets home.
* So now the dealer in Honiara has 40 pair of OVR. Big deal. They are common as rats, he sees them every day when he goes home. BUT he's anted up US$800 in cash that he borrowed from family, friends, and the unscrupulous and they want their money NOW.
* Meanwhile, some guy from Germany shows up and he's flashing cash. The dealer promised two pairs to some guy in USA, ten pair to a dealer in Canada, and five pair to a guy in Austria. The dealer wants $45/pair in Honiara, and the German guy will take ALL of them at that price. Do I need to do the math for you? A bird in the hand is better than the one in the bush. German guy gets them all.
* Then comes the hemming and hawing. The dealer sold "your" specimens, and it's going to take a month to replace them. Not because OVR are rare, but because of logistics. So you get the sad story, the delays, and perhaps then whatever damned specimens he can come up with to fulfill your order.
* By the way, the dealer doesn't go through every specimen to check quality. Have you ever gone through 40 pair of Victoria? Gets pretty damned boring. And, how the heck is he going to open each one and look at it? Soften it? They've had enough moisture and chances are they'll fall apart if he softens them again. And if he breaks one, that's $45 wasted. Did I mention that looking at Victoria is boring?
* Now, anybody that sells ANYTHING knows there has to be a substantial markup when selling, particularly overseas. Having to replace one pair of OVR to some "ass" from USA that complains it's A- and not A+ means a loss of $90 plus $20 shipping. That risk has to be spread out. So now the price is $100/pair.
* IF and that's IF, by any chance the dealer actually has a license, and pays the export fee and the commercial inspection (which is five times more than the annual wildlife license) then the price goes up. Of course, that doesn't really happen much. As far as I know, the last totally legal export from Solomon Islands occurred in 2010.
* Many large retailers in USA and elsewhere pay AFTER the shipment is received. And if the paperwork isn't 100% or if there are extra specimens, or if the specimens are not A+ the retailer doesn't pay. That means the Honiara-based dealer is out a thousand bucks and his family, friends, and investors want to kick his ass. So, when you come along willing to pre-pay, damned right he's got "something" for you! It's a matter of self preservation.
* Meanwhile, the retailer DOES give a good inspection of the specimens, at least as much as possible. But one can't see everything until the specimen is set, so there is always going to be some problems, replacements, etc. And there's that guy who wrecks a specimen in setting and tells the retailer it was received damaged. End result: The US retailer's landed cost is $60/ pair, he has overhead such as employees and ripoff buyers, and he has to charge $250/ pair.
So, my friends, that's how a $15 pair of butterflies gets to cost $250 and why you might be better off to pay $250 than to think you can order them at $15.
Chuck
