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Post by relliott on Dec 16, 2014 10:32:12 GMT -8
hi all, greetings from Argentina. I was recently reading a previous thread on Papilio hellanichus on this forum. I just thought you would like to see the male specimen I have. It was obtained in La Cumbre, Cordoba, Argentina in November 2014. Additionally I have a few larvae (ex-ova also from La Cumbre, Cordoba), which I am breeding. As you may know, they are extremely rare and also very hard to breed in captivity.   |
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Post by admin on Dec 16, 2014 10:35:28 GMT -8
Gorgeous!
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 16, 2014 12:11:44 GMT -8
Indeed, the specimen and larva is superb. Thanks for letting us all see them.
This species is especially hard to breed as uniquely for Papilionidae it feeds on a single species of Berberis, and is highly cannibalistic so larvae must be reared separately.
Adam.
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Post by relliott on Dec 16, 2014 12:32:20 GMT -8
Well said Adam, every caterpillar needs to be reared separately on this horrible plant, which does not grow very big and is very difficult to transplant. I had some issues with cannibalism to begin with, now that they are being reared individually, I am finally getting somewhere...
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 17, 2014 6:57:35 GMT -8
I can understand that it must be exceptionally difficult to rear this species, compared to almost all other Papilionidae in South America. I have seen photos of the food plant, and they have really nasty thorns.
It is a pity that hellanichus refuses to accept anything else in captivity, as an alternative food would be good. Have you thought of using an artificial diet based on homogenised Berberis leaves for this species? I would think that it is an ideal candidate since the larvae need to be kept separately anyway.
Adam.
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Post by relliott on Dec 17, 2014 9:34:21 GMT -8
I've even seen larvae with the thorns stuck through them in the wild, maybe the wind I guess...
These are early days and the livestock is very difficult to get hold off and scarce, I'm reluctant to try something new with the risk of losing them. Artificial diet will almost surely be on the agenda if and when we have a larger population.
I remember last year I tried other Berberis and they all died rather than eat it. They only seem to accept Berberis ruscifolia.
Rod
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Post by lordpandarus on Dec 17, 2014 13:37:44 GMT -8
Why are wild specimens hard to get?
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Post by exoticimports on Dec 18, 2014 7:32:32 GMT -8
Astonishing.
Now I will reveal the level of my ignorance.
I see that and think "Black Swallowtail" and "Machaon/ polyxenes" how hard can it be to raise? Then I looked at the photo of the larvae and it clearly doesn't look anything like that of the NA black swallowtails! In fact, it looks much closer to glaucus.
Where exactly do these fit into the scheme of order with the NA swallowtails and Machaon?
Chuck
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 18, 2014 7:43:35 GMT -8
Papilio hellanichus is a Pterourus group species related to scamander and menatius, and as you thought, is much more closely related to Papilio glaucus. Papilio machaon and relatives are on the other branch of genus Papilio, more closely related to the Oriental and African species than the Pterourus and Heraclides groups which form another branch of the genus. Interestingly the Asian groups Chilasa and Agehana and the European P. alexanor also belong to the American branch of genus Papilio and not the branch with all the other Old World species.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 18, 2014 7:46:08 GMT -8
Why are wild specimens hard to get? This species lives in dry thorn scrub habitat, not tropical forest like most butterflies. Not only is the general population size quite low, but it is also very difficult to catch them in the rather impenetrable habitat. Adam. |
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Post by relliott on Dec 18, 2014 8:28:58 GMT -8
Why are wild specimens hard to get? This species lives in dry thorn scrub habitat, not tropical forest like most butterflies. Not only is the general population size quite low, but it is also very difficult to catch them in the rather impenetrable habitat. Adam. Hi, in addition to Adam's comment, it only has one known host plant, a small thorny plant which is scarcely available. |
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Post by exoticimports on Dec 18, 2014 10:44:02 GMT -8
Papilio hellanichus is a Pterourus group species related to scamander and menatius, and as you thought, is much more closely related to Papilio glaucus. Papilio machaon and relatives are on the other branch of genus Papilio, more closely related to the Oriental and African species than the Pterourus and Heraclides groups which form another branch of the genus. Interestingly the Asian groups Chilasa and Agehana and the European P. alexanor also belong to the American branch of genus Papilio and not the branch with all the other Old World species. Adam. No kidding. Aside from the larva I'd have never imagined that. Thanks Adam. |
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Post by relliott on Dec 23, 2014 9:35:35 GMT -8
Hi all, I thought you'd like to see I finally got the first P hellanichus pupa. It's been a hassle to get these all the way through. Much cannibalism, food plant dieing and very few specimen in the wild to work with!!! Hopefully I will have the first adults soon!! Regards, Rod  |
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Post by laurie1 on Dec 23, 2014 11:02:30 GMT -8
Congratulations Rod!  |
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Post by colin12303 on Dec 23, 2014 13:39:26 GMT -8
I collected at La Cumbre in March 2012,totally the wrong time.
I do remember though that i had to do all my collecting from the wide footpath that ran through the centre of the scrubland
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