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Post by smallcopper on Sept 4, 2013 2:41:47 GMT -8
I can only say that I am assured by a lepidopterist of many years standing [ Clive Pratt ] that this is a good and unusual aberration. This dark ab is close to male ab fuscae but the latter does not have the pale, whitish yellow hindwings, which in my opinion are not washed out because the bright orange hindwing margin band and the forewings are in good order. Yes, there has been a bird attack, probably because this butterfly stands out from the usual normal forms. Regards Peter Well, Clive's reputation goes before him, so I appreciate that my dissenting opinion may well prove completely wrong! The forewings certainly are on the dark end of the spectrum. The pale areas though continue to bother me - though of course, I am working with a small version of the original image, and as such may not be privy to the amount of detail a hi-res, full-size image might reveal. I've taken the liberty of taking one of the images posted on here and doing the best I can to enlarge it, balance the levels slightly, sharpen slightly to bring out the detail, and span it around 90 degrees to put it into a specimen-set type position. Two observations - firstly, the pale areas on the forewings are, on close examination, asymmetrically shaped. Close, but not identical; there appear to be discrepancies in where the dark scales are present, and where they are not. Secondly, on the hindwings, there are clearly dark scales present in the pale areas, but comparing the wings they are strikingly asymmetrical. The asymmetry pushes me away from ascribing the cause of this appearance to something genetic. What I am seeing, especially on the hindwings, are areas of wing entirely rubbed clean of scales, and patches of dark scales remaining here and there. Contrary to my first impression, the subterminal bands, while nowhere near as worn as the area above them, are nevertheless not as pristine as first I thought. Small areas of rubbed scales are visible in the orange on the left-hand hindwing subterminal band, and in the dark lunules beneath the subterminal bands on both hindwings. It's proved a thought-provoking specimen! I hope you don't think I am being in any way critical, Peter - I'm really not - but for me at least the hindwings look entirely consistent with heavy wear. I've caught many butterflies down the years that have, for reasons unknown, had areas of almost translucent wing where the scales are absent, and that's what the hindwings on this one look like to me. An interesting specimen, and one that's clearly 'been around' a bit! Kind regards, J Attachments:
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Post by sanphilep on Sept 4, 2013 5:30:59 GMT -8
Hi there
I am new on this forum and I must admit it is an interesting one and to see the input of experienced people in the study of Lepidoptera.
I sincerely think this specimen is nice and striking with the shiny hind wings.
The L.phlaeas pictured here is interesting as it is coming from a much northern country where it rains much, much more than it does in Malta.
Climate is also colder and it seems that climate change is indicated also with butterflies, both with forms and species being recorder as new or in greater numbers than usual.
Regards to all
PS:I will look for the dates of last recorded L.phlaeas in Malta.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 7:41:33 GMT -8
Peter, according to Richard South your ab is fuscae, forewings anyway, page 72, mine as shown before is indeed ab radiata. As I stated before Lycaena phlaeas is an extremely variable butterfly, we could go on and on with I would guess many named forms, it all adds to the variety of this great hobby.  the intriguing thing about your specimen is that it still retains the bands on the hindwings, truly unique me thinks. Attachments:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 7:59:00 GMT -8
 the prettiest form for me is the blue spotted form caeruleopunctata. |
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Post by jonathan on Sept 4, 2013 8:51:04 GMT -8
Hi there I am new on this forum and I must admit it is an interesting one and to see the input of experienced people in the study of Lepidoptera. I sincerely think this specimen is nice and striking with the shiny hind wings. The L.phlaeas pictured here is interesting as it is coming from a much northern country where it rains much, much more than it does in Malta. Climate is also colder and it seems that climate change is indicated also with butterflies, both with forms and species being recorder as new or in greater numbers than usual. Regards to all PS:I will look for the dates of last recorded L.phlaeas in Malta. Hi Aldo, Welcome to the forum :-) My first and only L. phlaeas I caught in Malta was a female on June 2010. Do you have more recent records? Jonathan |
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 4, 2013 9:02:39 GMT -8
Now we know why they got extinct, it was you Jonathan, that was the last female! Just kidding. People should always be careful with the word extinct, sometimes small populations persist in inaccessible places and they can make a great come back. For all the Lycaena phlaeas friends, there is 481 records of Lycaena phlaeas on www.label-butterflies.com that need to get transcribed to produce the best range map possible. Here a female of subspecies abbottii from Kenya:  And a Lycaena phlaeas hypophlaeas from New Jersey:  |
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Post by smallcopper on Sept 4, 2013 9:10:18 GMT -8
View Attachmentthe prettiest form for me is the blue spotted form caeruleopunctata. Lovely photo! As you say, the variability of L.phlaeas is one of its particular charms. And caeruleopunctata is definitely one of the most attractive manifestations. Have you seen an ab.Schmidtii + caeruleopunctata? It's a beautiful combination. |
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Post by nomad on Sept 4, 2013 9:29:08 GMT -8
Hi all,
This L. phlaeas specimen has certainly aroused a certain amount of controversy with some very interesting discussion, without doubt, as dunc mentions this is ab fuscae. I did originally think when first seeing the butterfly, that the hindwings looked washed out but I do not now believe this to be the case. Although subject to a bird attack, this is not a faded specimen, the forewings show good colour and so does the orange hindwing margin but of course I may be wrong, as these small butterflies live for only a few days,it is my opinion that this particular butterfly has not been on the wing that long. Although all butterflies can be the subject to a bird attack, all the other L. phlaeas butterflies I saw that day looked very fresh with no signs of any damage and it could be because this ab stood out it was the subject of a attack by a bird such as a Meadow Pipit which frequent this area. I shall certainly go back and look at this colony in some detail. Dunc's specimen of ab caeruleopunctata is a most beautiful form. I believe some lepidopterists do not believe it is worth naming aberrations or vars as the early Entomologists called them, but I certainly do not agree with this, as the frequency of the occurrence of named forms is a worthwhile study and they are interesting to collect.
Regards Peter.
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pips
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Post by pips on Sept 8, 2013 7:10:51 GMT -8
Just 3 pictures of nice dark forms. These are bred specimens. Hope you like them. Regards, Thomas |
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Post by sanphilep on Sept 12, 2013 5:43:19 GMT -8
HI Thomas
This is a very interesting form and have never seen anything like it.
What about breeding conditions?
Do you agree that temperature plays an important part in coloration. I find that the hotter t6he temperature the darker are the adult butterflies.
This makes sense as the drier/hotter the conditions the more camouflage is required by the insect.
Regards
Aldo
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Post by nomad on Sept 18, 2013 10:57:42 GMT -8
Here are aberrations of British Lycaena phlaeas in the Clive Pratt collection.  |
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Post by nomad on Sept 18, 2013 10:59:43 GMT -8
 Left ab fuscae |
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Post by nomad on Sept 18, 2013 11:02:11 GMT -8
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Post by nomad on Sept 18, 2013 11:03:16 GMT -8
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Post by nomad on Sept 18, 2013 11:05:35 GMT -8
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