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Post by pittendrighinsects on Oct 5, 2012 15:31:25 GMT -8
After having collected three years consecutively in a chestnut forest in central Spain, I have never once seen Apatura ilia or any other species in that genus. Does anybody know if it occurs in Spain? (btw it is a great collecting spot with Limenitis reducta, Charaxes jasius and other woodland species)
Another thing, near where I collect in the summer, one can see the Sierra de Gredos (about 70km away from the city of Talavera, Castilla la mancha) in the distant. I was wondering if anyone knows if there is any Parnassius apollo/mnemosyne subspecies there? Thanks.
Quintin Pittendrigh
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Post by lepidofrance on Oct 5, 2012 16:48:17 GMT -8
Apatura iris flies in Sierra de Guadarrama, de la Demanda and in the Cantabrics Mounts where flies also A. ilia. The second butterfly is also to be seen in Catalunya and Huesca prov.
Parnassius mnemosyne flies in Pyrenees only (I met it last July in France close to the Spanish border). P. apollo inhabits Sierra Nevada, Sierra de los Filabres and Sierra de Gador. I don't remember if apollo flies in Sierra de Gredos : I think so but I have to check.
Charaxes jasius was very abundant around Osuna (Andalusia).
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Post by Christof on Oct 5, 2012 17:26:37 GMT -8
Parnassius apollo escalerae flies northwest of Madrid and should also fly in the eastern Sierra de Gredos. You have to make sure there is sufficient altitude (so there is snow there in winter). The area northwest of Madrid is very touristic and I never found any P. apollo there. But there can be always a surprise!
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Post by Christof on Oct 5, 2012 17:29:33 GMT -8
I checked and around Pico Almanzor (2590m) you definitely have sufficient altitude :-) Now you just have to find the right biotope and viola!
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Post by pittendrighinsects on Oct 5, 2012 17:47:31 GMT -8
Yes, the mountains in Sierra de Gredos are quite high (they have snow up to June/early July at the peaks), next year when I return to Spain my grandparents might take me there. I've never collected there, so I am hopeful, and can't wait to return. The area I usually collect is very good for butterflies, and I usually collect P. machaon hispanicus and Colias crocea as well as other more common species in the very low elevations in my town's area. At somewhat higher elevations there are Charaxes jasius, which I only have one specimen of (they fly too fast, the specimen I caught was feeding on dog feeces) as well as Limenitis reducta, Melanargia sp, Colias crocea, Iphiclides feithsmellii and others, many amazing forest butterflies.
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Post by thanos on Oct 5, 2012 18:02:14 GMT -8
Concerning C. jasius, from my collecting experience with this here, I can say that the best habitat is fig trees (Ficus carica) inside olive groves and Arbutus unedo (the larval foodplant). It can be locally common in late August here, and the adults readily feed on the mature figs. For Apatura, Salix trees must occur, as they're the larval foodplants (ilia can take also Populus). Here the best habitats for A. iris are mixed forests (with Salix, Populus, Quercus or Fagus, Abies, Pinus) mostly at around 1000 meters altitude, for A. ilia (and metis -this doesn't occur in Spain) stream/river valleys or lakes with Salix. About Spanish P. apollo, note that races from southern Spain like nevadensis (Sierra Nevada), gadorensis (Sierra de Gador) and filabricus (Sierra de los Filabres) have orange-yellow spots, instead of races like hispanicus which have the more usual red ones.
Thanos
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Post by pittendrighinsects on Oct 5, 2012 19:58:31 GMT -8
As for the C. jasius, its not that they are extremely rare in the area I go to (unlike Aporia crategi- I've only ever caught and seen one), its just that they fly too fast to catch. I recently got a bait trap from Bioquip and will use it when I return to Spain, I just need to know what bait to use and how to make it. I've never seen P. apollo because I've never been to Sierra de Gredos, maybe next summer I can go.
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Post by thanos on Oct 5, 2012 20:12:39 GMT -8
Yes, C. jasius is the fastest flying butterfly I've hunted -sometimes I was only able to see their shadows ! I think that mature/rotten figs in a trap would work. About A. ilia, in Catalonia you can find the f. barcina with wide white discal bands on the hindwings. As for A. crataegi, is very common here. I can catch you as much as you like.
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Post by pittendrighinsects on Oct 5, 2012 20:26:51 GMT -8
C. jasius seems to always be expensive when I see it on ebay, probably because of its difficulty to catch. Btw, does anyone know what are the subspecies to C. jasius? Thanks.
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Post by thanos on Oct 5, 2012 20:45:12 GMT -8
It is especially difficult to catch it in good quality..(esp. the female). Most of the good quality offered specimens are bred. Concerning the subspecies, jasius jasius flies in the Mediterranean area (also N. Africa), and all the rest (brunnescens, epijasius, harrisoni, saturnus, pagenstecheri) are African.
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Post by pittendrighinsects on Oct 5, 2012 21:11:01 GMT -8
The one specimen that I do have has a chip in the right forewing and a huge rub, not in best quality, but since I only have one, I can't do anything about it . Have you ever tried to breed it? Btw, two months ago, I saw an A1 pair selling on ebay for more than 100 dollars, but it was in A1/expupae quality, still very pricey for a common species. The A. crategi is, in my town in Spain, exceedingly rare, but then again I do collect in June, July, and by that time most of the butterflies of spring and early summer are either in very bad condition and very rare (I've only once caught Melanargia ines in early June, wasn't even in A1 condition) or non-existant (such as Z. rumina). Read more: insectnet.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=3421&page=1#ixzz28UbTkzCp
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 21:25:10 GMT -8
"As for A. crataegi, is very common here. I can catch you as much as you like"
send some to me its extinct here.
As for c jasius, the last time I went to Northern Spain it was everywhere around the town of Tossa de Mar, I managed to collect a good series, in the heat of the day it seemed more docile thus easier to net but boy are they fast.
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Post by thanos on Oct 5, 2012 21:39:56 GMT -8
Next season I can send to both of you some A. crataegi in A1 for free. Remind it to me next spring/summer so to catch many. It is one of the species I ignore when in the field and searching for other more interesting to me species. I haven't tried to breed C. jasius, all my specimens are wild collected, but I think is not hard to do if you catch a few females and put them in a cage alive, they lay eggs, and you have got leaves of Arbutus unedo from the habitat. Oh and 100 usd for a pair, even if A1, is ridiculous.
Thanos
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Post by lepidofrance on Oct 6, 2012 0:21:54 GMT -8
Regarding Charaxes jasius, I collected many in Corsica and Andalusia (long time ago). Sure, it's a quick flyer. Anyway, it's not so difficult to collect knowing that : a) The butterfly is mainly in Arbutus unedo bushes (as told by Thanos) ; see : fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbousierb) The butterfly comes to rotten fruits and to alcoholic beverages : use the trap with this bait : rotten fruits mixed with rhum - or beer - and sugar. c) The males do the hill-toping and are territorial : if you catch a male on a hill-top, few minutes after you will see a second male coming at the same place. Catch this second fellow and a third will appear 5 minutes later. And so on. d) These hill-topers and territorial fighters are very curious : they like to fly around something new (the collector, for example). So, they use to come to observe what you are ! When I collect in sunny areas, I use to wear a white straw hat (Panama hat) : most of the time, the Charaxes flies directly to the Panama hat !! As said in a former thread, Charaxes jasius was so abundant in the Osuna hills (between Sevilla and Cordoba) that, after two or three days collecting, I ended to catch this butterfly ! Regarding this spanish Charaxes, I'll say it is a little bit less large in size than the corsican (or italian) Charaxes. Attachments:
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Post by lepidofrance on Oct 6, 2012 0:31:38 GMT -8
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