Bunaeopsis oube female

[colin12303]

A Kenyan saturniid from the Nairobi area

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[africaone]

very interesting record. I never seen any from Nairobi (it's better known further North and in Ethiopia )!
ps the name is oubie

[colin12303]

Yes it was supposed to have come from the Kenyan Highlands
which are north of Nairobi. but in saying that there were butterflies from Mt Marsabit and Mt Kulal with it,so a mix up may have occured by the collector

[oehlkew]

Hi Colin,
Several collectors have provided me with images of males of what I am pretty sure are Bunaeopsis oubie from
Keekorok Lodge, Masai Mara, Kenya;
Etosha, Kenya;
Central Province, Kenya.
so I think Nairobi area would not be out of the question, but it is also possible that location was mislabeled, especially since you received butterflies from further north in same package.
I request permission to post image of Bunaeopsis oubie female, credited to you, on WLSS.

Bill Oehlke

[oehlkew]

I do not know what distinguishes this species from Bunaeopsis zaddachi which is generally regarded as flying further to the south when compared to Bunaeopsis oubie. I just checked my zaddachi page and I have an image of a live male, reported from Nairobi, Kenya, on that page. Perhaps there is a blend zone between the two species.
Bill Oehlke
Perhaps examination of genitalia or DNA barcoding is required to distinguish between the two species.
I think at one time a designation of Bunaeopsis oubie orientalis
was used to describe species from eastern part of range, but I can no longer find a specifed range for that subspecies, and I think perhaps it was synonymized with nominate oubie.

[ruma]

hi Bill
not being an expert on moths in any way but being from kenya myself i am as yet unaware of any area/ town called etosha in kenya but i could be wrong!

[africaone]

they can be distinguished by neuration (FW), also by wingshape more elongated with tornus more rounded, pink of HW espacially in anal margin, ... (of course by DNA, it is very clear ... not so close to zaddachi in fact, exept by a convergent habitus)
Marsabit or Kulal are more logical for this moth.

[colin12303]

I have posted a pic of another one from the same lot,in poor condition.
Bill anything i post if you can use it please feel free to do so

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[oehlkew]

Colin,
Thanks for permission to post images. I offer free membership to photographers who grant permission to use images of specimens I do not already have depicted on WLSS. I did not previously have female of oubie.
Please send me a private message via this site or send a personal email if you are interested and are not already a member.

Thierry,
Thanks for id help. I do not see some of the differences you mention, but I do see the difference in lack of pink along inner margin in zaddachi.

Ruma,
Thanks, either the photographer indicated an incorrect location or I made a mistake in editing the file. Below is the picture that was sent as being from Etosha. An internet search says there is an Etosha in Namibia, so perhaps that is the origin of that specimen. It is very black and seems to have much more rounded forewings than oubie (at least a much more evenly convex forewing outer margin). There is also much black along the inner margin of the hindwing.
It does not seem to be princeps or annabellae, two species I have listed from Namibia.

Id help for this one would be appreciated.
Bill Oehlke

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[africaone]

Bill
princeps and anabellae are very very much variable in color pattern (as many others Bunaeopsis). I have a series of annabellae in collection and some specimens looks like very much princeps (all the two were described from the same region as I remember), may be they are synonym
The genus is in neeed of a revison that promises to be an aventure (add the fact that bacode didn't gave clear answers despite some good indications)
Why not princeps (a dark one) for the specimen you showed ?

ps : note that oubie is wrongly used by many authors or cellectors

[colin12303]

Seem to have opened a can of worms here!!!!

[oehlkew]

Hi Thierry,
I would love to receive and display some of your images of annabellae.
I only have one image of princeps and it lacks the very convex outer margin of the moth from Etosha, is not as black, has yellowish hindwing basal area and yellow along hindwing inner margin, whereas the moth from Etosha has pink and black in those areas.

I was hoping that DNA barcoding would help to remove some of the difficulty in determining the Bunaeopsis. I have also been told that DNA barcoding is not an effective tool for determining Catocala which can also be very difficult.

[oehlkew]

Thierry,
I have two images of annabellae, one, again I believe from Rolf Oberprieler and one from John Kamps that I think came from your collection. At least it is labelled as such. The hindwings of the specimen from Etosha
are a better match for annabellae, except for the size of the hyaline spots, but again the forewing outer margin of
both "annabellae" specimens does not seem a good match for the specimen from Etosha.
Bill Oehlke

Perhaps we will only learn more through captive rearing and shared information and photos.

I enjoy the "can of worms" because I usually learn something from it, and already I have learned that the specimen from Etosha is likely not from Kenya, and have learned to sort zaddachi from oubie.
Bill Oehlke

[colin12303]

Yes i suppose your right,its just that nowadays i prefer black and white,grey areas just give me a head ache.
By the way did you get my e,mail?

[saturniidave]

Bill, I can confirm that the specimen there (which is in my collection) is from Kenya. Maybe the name was a local one or maybe I misread the label? The friend who got it for me goes to Western Kenya every year to do a spell of teaching so I can guarantee it was from there. Sadly I am no longer in contact with him.
I have just re-checked the label and remembered why the info was so vague, it is greased up and almost unreadable,. It does say something like 'Etosha' or Etobo'. Bur definitely from W. Kenya.
Davet