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Post by panzerman on Dec 6, 2011 16:30:33 GMT -8
One of the rarest parides.... John Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Dec 6, 2011 16:32:48 GMT -8
female from Fr. Guiana John Attachments:
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Post by panzerman on Dec 6, 2011 16:34:10 GMT -8
better photo hopefully... John Attachments:
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 7, 2011 0:18:21 GMT -8
Very nice and very rare indeed ! Congrats !
Which locality ?
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Post by panzerman on Dec 7, 2011 20:10:26 GMT -8
Thanks. St. Laurent, Guyane Francais. John
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jaume
Full Member
Posts: 210
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Post by jaume on Dec 8, 2011 1:09:27 GMT -8
John, wonderful. I still need the female. Difficult to get for the rarity and also for the price !
JAUME
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Post by bobw on Dec 8, 2011 1:59:59 GMT -8
The correct name for this species is Parides vercingetorix (Oberthür, 1888), not P. coelus (Boisduval, 1836) which is preoccupied by coelus (Stoll, 1781) and is therefore a senior synonym.
Bob
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 8, 2011 2:54:36 GMT -8
And Vercingetorix is a far better name for this French rarity !
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Post by bobw on Dec 8, 2011 4:50:05 GMT -8
As long as Vercingetorix doesn't get replaced by Caesar!
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 8, 2011 10:31:55 GMT -8
The correct name for this species is Parides vercingetorix (Oberthür, 1888), not P. coelus (Boisduval, 1836) which is preoccupied by coelus (Stoll, 1781) and is therefore a senior synonym. Bob Bob, Yes, you are correct about the names, but I think you mean senior homonym, not synonym. Adam.
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Post by bobw on Dec 8, 2011 11:31:58 GMT -8
Adam
It depends which way you look at it. I wpuld say that coelus Boisduval is a junior homonym of coelus Stoll and a senior synonym of vercingetorix Oberthür, unless I've misunderstood something.
Bob
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 9, 2011 0:31:17 GMT -8
Bob,
Ah, I see what you mean - a bit convoluted. I thought you meant that coelus Stoll, 1781 is a senior homonym of coelus Boisduval, 1836.
However, your last statement is incorrect, vercingetorix Oberthür, 1888 is a senior synonym of coelus Boisduval, 1836, not the other way round. The senior synonym or homonym is the valid name, the junior synonym/homonym is not (for the benefit of those who are unsure of the difference between senior and junior here).
Adam.
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Post by bobw on Dec 9, 2011 3:57:10 GMT -8
Bob, Ah, I see what you mean - a bit convoluted. I thought you meant that coelus Stoll, 1781 is a senior homonym of coelus Boisduval, 1836. However, your last statement is incorrect, vercingetorix Oberthür, 1888 is a senior synonym of coelus Boisduval, 1836, not the other way round. The senior synonym or homonym is the valid name, the junior synonym/homonym is not (for the benefit of those who are unsure of the difference between senior and junior here). Adam. Adam I've looked at The Code again and, as in many things, it's rather ambiguous. My understanding is that senior/junior refers strictly to age, which would make my explanatory statement true. All three names are available but the fact that vercingetorix, Oberthur, 1888 is a junior subjective synonym of coelus Boisduval, 1836, doesn't prevent it from being the valid name, as coelus Bois. is a junior primary homonym of coelus Stoll, 1781 and therefore invalid. I may be wrong but that's certainly my reading of it. Maybe I'll ask Gerardo. Bob
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Post by africaone on Dec 9, 2011 4:30:07 GMT -8
i agree with you Bob. coelus boisd. is invalid and must replaced by his synonym vercingetorix
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 9, 2011 7:52:57 GMT -8
i agree with you Bob. coelus boisd. is invalid and must replaced by his synonym vercingetorix Thierry, We all agree on that point. The discussion between Bob and I was about the use of the word synonym/homonym. Bob, I see what you mean, but I'm not sure that is the correct terminology. Yes coelus Boisduval is a senior synonym of vercingetorix Oberthur, 1888, but once it is ruled unavailable it becomes a junior synonym of the available name, and is listed in synonymy of that name. The ICZN Code is unclear about this issue simply because it is entering the realms of taxonomy. The Code stops regulating precisely once the name has been shown to be unavailable. How we list names in synonymy is a taxonomic rather than pure nomenclatorial issue and thus not governed by the ICZN Code. Adam.
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