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Post by Crake on Sept 10, 2021 16:01:09 GMT -8
Hi everyone.
I’ve got some P. brevicauda pupae in the refrigerator that I’m pretty eager to rear before the year gets busy. Does anyone know what the average minimum time is to induce diapause in brevicauda? They’ve been at 37*F for 1 week now, though I assume it’s longer than that. Would a month/1.5 months suffice?
Thanks.
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Post by kevinkk on Sept 10, 2021 16:56:52 GMT -8
The species aside, I've hatched Saturniidae and other Papilios before spring for various reasons. Just a guess about winter in general, I'd
think 12 weeks in the cold before bringing stock out for hatching. It might depend on the species, and where it's from geographically, the
conditions they normally live in.
Just thinking about Hyalophora euryalus, it is native to the west and in it's southern range probably never experiences the same temperatures
as it does in the north, it would be an interesting, albeit long experiment with a lot of variables to consider for any widespread species.
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 10, 2021 17:08:02 GMT -8
You’re going to rear larvae through winter? Be internet to see the response to short photo periods and dry air.
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Post by Crake on Sept 10, 2021 17:24:32 GMT -8
You’re going to rear larvae through winter? Be internet to see the response to short photo periods and dry air. Yeah. I’ve reared P. zelicaon in the winter off parsley from the supermarket. |
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Post by exoticimports on Sept 11, 2021 3:17:34 GMT -8
Well I don’t have an answer to your question but I’d like to know the results.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 11, 2021 3:51:25 GMT -8
If you put them in a sealed plastic box in the veggie compartment of your fridge now and take them out in December they should hatch in January if you keep them at about 25C after taking them out of the fridge. Beware of dessication if the pupae are in a dry room.
I am not sure how much success you will have ith parsley, P. brevicauda is not as keen on alternative foodplants as polyxenes or zelicaon although I found it will lay eggs on fennel.
P. brevicauda larvae are found on plants growing right near the St. Lawrence River banks so I agree that low humidity could be a problem. They also need good airflow, keeping them in sealed plastic boxes is good for humidity, but dreadful for airflow. You should rear them in net cages somewhere airy but humid. If the airflow is bad they are very prone to disease.
Adam.
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Post by Crake on Sept 11, 2021 9:01:55 GMT -8
If you put them in a sealed plastic box in the veggie compartment of your fridge now and take them out in December they should hatch in January if you keep them at about 25C after taking them out of the fridge. Beware of dessication if the pupae are in a dry room. I am not sure how much success you will have ith parsley, P. brevicauda is not as keen on alternative foodplants as polyxenes or zelicaon although I found it will lay eggs on fennel. P. brevicauda larvae are found on plants growing right near the St. Lawrence River banks so I agree that low humidity could be a problem. They also need good airflow, keeping them in sealed plastic boxes is good for humidity, but dreadful for airflow. You should rear them in net cages somewhere airy but humid. If the airflow is bad they are very prone to disease. Adam. Thanks for the information, Adam. That’ll be really helpful. I’ve actually found a way to provide both humidity and airflow before by leaving larvae in a net enclosure in a room with a humidifier on. |
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Post by kevinkk on Sept 11, 2021 10:03:10 GMT -8
Adam- does P. brevicauda accept fennel? I don't see that one listed anywhere, usually females only lay on accepted food plants.
I can see the raising during winter completely plausible, with proper lighting and humidity.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 11, 2021 11:11:18 GMT -8
Adam- does P. brevicauda accept fennel? I don't see that one listed anywhere, usually females only lay on accepted food plants. I can see the raising during winter completely plausible, with proper lighting and humidity. It laid on fennel here and the larvae ate it happily. Unfortunately the weather here is of course much too hot, so the females died before laying many eggs. However, my main objective was to use males for hybridisation experiments with machaon which was a success. Adam. |
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Post by Crake on Sept 11, 2021 11:45:08 GMT -8
Adam- does P. brevicauda accept fennel? I don't see that one listed anywhere, usually females only lay on accepted food plants. I can see the raising during winter completely plausible, with proper lighting and humidity. It laid on fennel here and the larvae ate it happily. Unfortunately the weather here is of course much too hot, so the females died before laying many eggs. However, my main objective was to use males for hybridisation experiments with machaon which was a success. Adam. Adam—Do you have photographs of the brevicauda x machaon hybrids? They’d be interesting to see. Thanks. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Sept 12, 2021 4:37:04 GMT -8
Here is a quick snapshot I made of 3 pairs of P. brevicauda male (Havre-St-Pierre, Quebec) X P. machaon gorganus female (Kayl, Luxembourg), females on the left, smaller males on the right:  Interestingly the pupae of this cross all emerged without going into diapause, whereas previously I had crossed P. brevicauda male (Havre-St-Pierre, Quebec) X P. machaon gorganus female (Vorarlberg, Austria), but all the males emerged without diapause and all the females only emerged the following year. Adam. |
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Post by trehopr1 on Sept 12, 2021 7:57:15 GMT -8
Very nice hybrids Adam !
Lots of yellow on those which really "pops" against the black background. The blue coloration also really shows well.
Outstanding cross...
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Post by 58chevy on Sept 12, 2021 8:35:02 GMT -8
I agree. They are beauties!
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Post by Crake on Dec 16, 2021 19:37:20 GMT -8
Hi all.
A male and female brevicauda have emerged. The female came out this morning, the male two days ago. I’ve tried again and again to hand pair them but they refuse to copulate. They’ve been fed, they’re warm, under bright light, etc. During the attempts the female extrudes her genitalia and the male opens his claspers, except when placed together, there is no lasting connection—even after a full 35 minutes of being held together.
Any thoughts?
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Post by kevinkk on Dec 17, 2021 10:01:45 GMT -8
I have some thoughts.
I have hand paired polyxenes and oregonius respectively. Some of the time it seemed simple, other times they refused. I tried to think about
what the issues were, what time of day was it, had they been fed, how old were they?? Perhaps taking more notes would have been a good idea-
Possibly, I decided perhaps incorrectly that morning worked best, I do think that holding them for more than 10 minutes is a waste of
time. I don't recall if they had been fed or not, but I have learned a bit about butterfly nutrition since then, although I was using
hummingbird nectar with electrolytes. I'm not going to be using body fluids thank you, but might mix in some gatorade next time.
Different species pair at different angles, the age of the insects is also going to be a factor, and that seems to vary with species, if
it's an old male, sometimes that works better, other species work better if the male is fresh.
It could be they insects know they're not ready to mate, for instance, maybe they're missing some nutritional requirement.
Lighting didn't seem to matter, my room has ambient light from the windows and skylights.
I have some brevicauda in the fridge right now, and am waiting for spring when my fennel bush starts growing again.
It may just be too soon for the female, since she just emerged...
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